• Advertisement

Rub sets

Coyote, Fox, Beaver, Racoon, etc.

Moderators: Prairie Ghost, Coyotehunter

Rub sets

Postby lyonch » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:50 am

How many of you use, or attempted rub sets when you are trapping? I have done a little research on it, and it seems like it has it's place at times on the trap line. I personally feel this could be a great set for bobcats, but i don't have any experience with bobcats and trapping :oops:
Chris Lyon


My mind belongs to my work,
My heart belongs to my family,
BUT MY SOUL BELONGS TO THE COYOTES!!!


User avatar
lyonch
coyotehunter
 
Posts: 2795
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:52 pm
Location: Not where i want to be

Re: Rub sets

Postby EO caller » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:21 pm

Never have tried it but I have heard of it. I think you would want to use a lure that would make a cat wanna rub up against your backing at about eyelevel or a bit higher. Obviosly catnip or something with alot of nip in it would work. Our pet bobcat went nuts for Bag Balm. If you've ever milked a cow you know what this is. But he would try to stick his whole head into the can and rub and rub on it. It was really comical.
But like any set you want to keep the animal working the set as long as possible and I think this is a good alternative set if there is a lot of trapping pressure or your after a pinched or educated cat. But I could be talking out of my ass too. :oops: :lol: Just my take on it.
"CHASIN A DREAM-LIVIN A NIGHTMARE"


User avatar
EO caller
 
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: northeast oregon

Re: Rub sets

Postby Coyotehunter » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:22 pm

good question. I have used rub sets and they do have there place but you really can not go wrong with a flag, 2 traps and lots of guides.................and...................location. Cats are UBBERDUMB (is that a word?) don't worry about trap shy, pinched cats. The rub sets is nice along a rock face on a ridge that they are traveling, slows them down and keeps them pacing back and forth across the set. Look for toilets, hang a flag, double trap, and lots of guides. Rub sets work well on travel ways.
Coyotes Forever


User avatar
Coyotehunter
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3343
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:57 am
Location: Wyoming

Re: Rub sets

Postby EO caller » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:50 pm

Was I atleast right about the catnip thing? Do they have that in alot of commercial cat lures?
"CHASIN A DREAM-LIVIN A NIGHTMARE"


User avatar
EO caller
 
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: northeast oregon

Re: Rub sets

Postby lyonch » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:04 pm

Jamie have you tried this with coyotes? I would think that any lure that causes a rolling effect at the set would work great as a rub set or really deep in a dirthole.

Eocaller from what little I know about lure making, you are right that a lot of cat lures have cat nip in them. @
Chris Lyon


My mind belongs to my work,
My heart belongs to my family,
BUT MY SOUL BELONGS TO THE COYOTES!!!


User avatar
lyonch
coyotehunter
 
Posts: 2795
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:52 pm
Location: Not where i want to be

Re: Rub sets

Postby Coyotehunter » Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:25 pm

yep most have catnip in them...........most of them have imitation catnip in them at least. Back in the day they use to just use catnip.........real catnip. all kinds of different sets, always 2 traps........put catnip oil in a jar, put the lid on it, punch holes in the lid and bury it in the ground up to the lid. Use some type of backing right off of a known cat travel way tihe the traps in front of the jar just off of the trail.

rub sets do work for coyote but just a flat set with some gland will work fine. its the hieght of the lure that makes it a rub set to an extent. Some trappers advocate putting there lure up 12"-18" for coyotes some want it in the ground even on there flat sets. Little half inch holes 4-6" deep with lure in the bottom of the hole at the base of the bush. Even go as far as pinching the hole shut. More of a trick for summer territorial coyotes and not maybe so much for fall production trapping. anyways, cats its all about location and that is the real trick with them. more so than even coyotes, mainly due to densities but also because they are not coyotes. though adult toms will travel the same areas that coyotes will and you can catch a bunch of toms on coyote gland and flat sets. case in point would be an area I trapped with 4 dozen traps, and about 80-90 trail snares. Not a single cat set, no flags, no cat urine and no commercial cat lure. coyote scat, urine and gland. 18 cats, 19 coyotes, 2 red fox and a pile of badgers, skunks, raccoon and ferrel cats. about 10,000 acres give or take. Great weather and no competition. I think I caught 2 kittens in one set, let both go, and 2 females, the rest all adult Toms. One ranch, locked gates. The trick with numbers on cats is finding the females, finding the toilets, and knowing were to put the sets so you can keep them running. You do these 3 things and you will catch some cats. You do a few other things and you will catch alot of cats.
Coyotes Forever


User avatar
Coyotehunter
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3343
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:57 am
Location: Wyoming

Re: Rub sets

Postby coyotelatrans » Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:11 pm

Rub sets can work well for cats I like beaver castor, try putting an open jar of castor in front or your pet cat and watch his/her reaction! Beaver castor is one of the best cat attractors bar none ever used. Some over look it but it is fantastic for cats!!! I never seen a need for 2 traps at a cat set for the simple reason you can guide them to step where you wan them to. I would rather have that 2nd trap at a different set catching another cat or some other critter that pays the bills, like a nice prime badger or another cat. Offer them a good lure and bait combo as mentioned on location and make the best place to put the foot right on your pan. Some use 2 traps at a coyote set each to their own but again no need with mutiple smells and using a walk thru approach and simple guiding makes for a high catch rate on trap visitation.


User avatar
coyotelatrans
coyotehunter
 
Posts: 191
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:52 pm

Re: Rub sets

Postby Coyotehunter » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:26 pm

You do a lot of cat trapping over there in South dakota then.........never talked with a 50 plus a year cat guy who wasn't using 2 traps on cat sets. Good friend of mine will do 80-100 cats a year on public land and he runs 2 traps per set on a drag. At $500 a pop, most guys don't want the miss and or the loss due to a bad hold. I want to catch them the first time and make sure they are there when I get back.
Coyotes Forever


User avatar
Coyotehunter
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3343
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:57 am
Location: Wyoming

Re: Rub sets

Postby coyotelatrans » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:42 am

Yes I do some cat trapping here in SD I take time off to do it, Not hard core but I have caught my share and I have seen that alot of what is written about cats I think is to sell methods and the such. One a cat has a very good nose, better than most will give them credit for. Catching them has shown me that. Secondly they are very curious as you eluded to and that is a major down fall of many of them. Some say they are such efficant hunters that smells alone aren't the answer, sure they are efficant hunters but if your on location and offer them key smells any cat worth it's salt as a hunter and being curious by nature will check it out. I like to offer a minium of 2 smells and most of the time 3 smells at each set. I have not found it needed to dress them up like a christmas tree :D

I would rather have each of those additional traps on a new set by itself, than having 2 traps at each set, we can guide cats heavy, they have little fear of tall and wide backings, and on location they will investigate those set's if we are using the proper baits/lures to keep them enticed. Make the only and best place to approach the set the pan of "A" trap. I use the wind when setting for cats as I do coyotes, and I would rather have single sets with prevailing wind and 1 the opposite than 2 traps at each and every set. If a cat can't smell what you offer then how are they going to react to it? I think alot of that tinsle and bells are used in those reguards. I can't ever remember having a cat set that I wished I had 2 traps at the set to make a connnection. I gang set the area and it seems to work well for me.

Each to there own and what brings them confidance and success, but 2 traps atre not mandatory to catch a high % of cats IMO.

Nice Tom

Image

Our cat country The razorback is a great set location

Image

My bobcat trapping partner and a rare winter with little snow
Image


User avatar
coyotelatrans
coyotehunter
 
Posts: 191
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:52 pm

Re: Rub sets

Postby Coyotehunter » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:22 am

You can problems with a cat powering out of a set. lot of the times you will have a tree or rock backing. It can be a bush as well, not trying to make a big deal out of the backing, you have to make use of what you got at that location. There is a old saying that you kill cats with there eyes and coyotes with there nose. The number of traps I have available to set has nothing to do with it. I have more traps then I have hours in a day, or days in a check. adding another trap at every location is of no issue. I do not gang set my cat locations......and always flag. because of the snow and frost you have to pick the spot and get the cat there. You have to give a cat something to focus on, with the wind and drafts you can not always count on the wind to be were you want it to be. A good spot, on sign, that will blow or melt off, that a cat can see.....well, that is everything. I have caught as many as 5 cats on one trap at a dirt hole.........no flag, no cat urine, no cat gland......so I will take location over anyones lure or secret set. But the odds of a 50 cat year go up if you stay on the cat trapping mind set and don't try to coyote trap your cats.
Coyotes Forever


User avatar
Coyotehunter
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3343
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:57 am
Location: Wyoming

Re: Rub sets

Postby coyotelatrans » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:53 pm

With the traps I have used for cats I have never had one power out, the reasons are a few: a good heavy trap, 4 coiled and a few others. They certainly don't fight a trap like a coyote correct? I would be more concerned with a toe caught anything with some size and muscle, but pan tension is key for cats or coyotes, I want full comitment before the trap fires and another reason I don't use screen/ shingles unlike many others. It is rare that I get toe catches becuase of using pan tension and using a trap with the proper sized pan. There is a big numbers cat trapper from MT that uses nothing but stock 3 victor coils for cats and takes many each year, each trap to his own but if he was concerned with power outs I doubt he would be using stock 3 victors. Not my trap of choice but he uses them with good results and if someone steals them he isn't at home crying about it :D

I stated location is key : but if your on location and offer them key smells any cat worth it's salt as a hunter and being curious by nature will check it out. If I'm 5 ft off the line of travel why would I need flagging? Further more if I'm 5 ft and using the wind why wouldn't a cat investigate the odors offered if they are cat enticing to begin with? No different than coyotes some claim the need to use ample lure, I have caught plenty of them using less because of the close proximity to the line of travel. We make it easy for any animal to investigate when we locate our sets within feet of their natural line of travel. I have never bought into the notion that you catch cat's with there eye's and not their nose, as I have caught some in the most natural/blended coyotes sets and that is when I figured it out, they found that set for only one reason that would be the use of their nose.

Each to there own and what works for them but no hard and fast rules by any means, in fact I see alot of stuff in print and videos and I think much of it is to trap trappers and not the actual critters......


User avatar
coyotelatrans
coyotehunter
 
Posts: 191
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:52 pm

Re: Rub sets

Postby Coyotehunter » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:08 pm

what kind of numbers are you catching. I mean if you are running 75 cat sets over the course of a season and doing 20 cats............or 20 sets for a month and doing 20 cats......
stake a trap and put it at the base of a big tree, put a big tom on a back foot and if you do enough of it you WILL see some power outs. Cats don't lunge on a trap they climb trees and pull. A little rain or wet melting snow and you will occasionally lose a cat to a pull out.
If you run drags you can keep a cat in most any trap. the problem with drags were the cat can run off is that you want your cats to stay put at the set. depending on your backing you may be able to have set that does not require a big bore trap. There is a trick to it here, but your comment is about the 3N's. There is more to this than just holding the cat. cat locations get better with each catch, I need them close. if you stake two traps you are going to have a mess when you get there, I don't like a single trap for the issues I have already mentioned, I run drags but I set it up so that can not go anywere. This is all about catching more cats at one location.
If you are running traps all winter in snow/thaw conditions you can not always put it right under their nose. You got to get on that spot that will stay blown off and not freeze over on you, and then still bed it in as good of material as you have available.
If you get it off of the trail you can avoid alot of you non targets. Trap you coyote, porcupine, winter boar coon.......etc. on the trail and move your high dollar cats and sets out of the way in the sun and wind. If you put that lure were every one can smell it you will have everyone working your set. I just want the cats working my cat sets. I can cheaply and with out much effort trail snare everything else. You sound like your just making a hope I catch anything predator set. there is no argument that you can catch cats all day in a coyote sets but you typically do not catch many coyotes in a flagged up cat set. again trying to keep the $20 coyote out of my $500 cat set, using their eyes and not their nose as the focal point of the set. Production trapping, not just a dozen or so pet locations.
Coyotes Forever


User avatar
Coyotehunter
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3343
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:57 am
Location: Wyoming

Re: Rub sets

Postby coyotelatrans » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:24 pm

No not a wish and hope type deal at all, but here where you find cats in the winter our season doesn't open until Mid December your going to find coyotes as they are using the same areas come snow fall and when it get's deep they are all running the ice and staying out of the big piles on the open prairie. They hunt the same areas as that is where the food is come winter, a hard up coyote will work some very tight backed and very heavy guided sets not much a guy can do. I would still say by doing these things you keep the coyotes down in the traps. We have little to No coon movement with most of our winters gets extremely cold, badgers and porcupines move some but gang setting and the price of badgers not going to complain about them they pay the gas. Porky;s are great cat attractors in their own right :)

With guiding and lure placement you can keep back footed catches down to a minimum. I get to take some time off not close to the entire season and last year didn't set a cat trap snow way too deep and No snowmobil, so let those areas sit another year. Here where we have harsh winters the cat catch goes by the snow depth, we don;t tag near as many cats in deep snow winters as we do more open winters.


User avatar
coyotelatrans
coyotehunter
 
Posts: 191
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:52 pm

Re: Rub sets

Postby Coyotehunter » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:32 pm

well your winters are the same as mine. our season is 15nov until the end of mar. so how many sets are you running and how many cats are you tagging? I guess if your ok with badger and coyote in your cat sets then I guess that is how you run. I was trapping cats in Minnesota before coming here so I have delt with a little snow.
Coyotes Forever


User avatar
Coyotehunter
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3343
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:57 am
Location: Wyoming

Re: Rub sets

Postby coyotelatrans » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:57 pm

No offesne coyotehunter but we on avg have alot more snow than your area I believe. We had solid snow cover from 1st of Nov to 1st part of april and have had such the past 3 years. Piles and piles of it.

From what I hear your snow comes and goes ours once it is here it is here until late spring more often than not.

In Minn wasn;t their a limit on bobcats? Like a few each per season? Or is that WI only?

I'm totally OK with catching other critters and having sets there for the cats to work, no doubt about that. Gang setting works well and it isn;t like there are alot of these other species to be had where the mjaority of cat traps are set. Gaudy snow sets and heavy guiding will reduce coyote catches, but if they where 50.00+ each again I would be setting for them as well as the cats, most areas like ours doesn't have a ton of cats, we aren't Texas but the quiality is sure a better cat.

I guess if some think 2 traps per set is the way to go great, I would rather have my traps on more locations in other areas and not having to redo 2 traps per set but have 3-5 sets on a location to take cats and other critters.

Not the 3n's either, Halseth is the one who was using the #3 victors coils and a few year he tagged out more cats than most others.

Boils down to what ever works for you or I to achieve what we set out to.


User avatar
coyotelatrans
coyotehunter
 
Posts: 191
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:52 pm

Next

Return to Trapping Tips

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron