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High C

coyote studies

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Postby Prairie Ghost » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:05 pm

I don't pay attention to hitting a "High C" although i have read it in literture multiple times by the Biology type so i'm going to assume that the average coyote reaches close to a High C when it howls and that is where it comes from.

The 20 minutes between howls i have verified to be untrue. I believe Major knows a lot about coyote vocalizations and every time i read that statement by him it makes me scratch my head. I have witnessed not by sound but by visual MULTIPLE times a coyote or pack of coyotes doing a group yip howl and doing it again before the 20 minute mark. The group yip howl is supposed to be the toughest for them as far as vocal cords. Work a den where the adults show up pissed off many times they howl just about constantly some times for up to 20 minutes before i "shut them up" :D

Thats just my two cents based off of what I have seen IN the field.
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Postby lyonch » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:08 pm

A guy can only take it for a given amount of time listening to them howl before he needs to shut them up. thanks for informational post brad.
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Postby LeviM » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:10 pm

what about a "warning howl" they never shut up, I wish at that time it would be 20minutes between howls. although on the other hands its not really a howl more than its a series of barks
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Postby Coyotehunter » Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:07 pm

Well there are smarter people out there that would be better equipted to delve into the subject. I believe we are talking about a specific howl, what I have heard called a spacing howl. Some would argue that coyotes are able to judge distance by sound with pin point accruracy. This howl is a single howl made by one coyote. I have read 3 different studies attesting to the sound and how frequent it is used by a coyote. In my mind I think there is something to it. But I do not think that information is very high on my list of things to consider when I am goIng to go out and kill a coyote. Not even top ten.
Last edited by Coyotehunter on Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby littlebigenuf » Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:50 pm

I found a short clip on the internet of a coyote doing consecutive howls within seconds. Thought it was kinda neat.

http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=9307974


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Re: High C

Postby lyonch » Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:39 am

I found some other information about this HIGH C note stuff. The information came from the same source but was switched to a different angle. The information came from Major Boddicker's website.

"When you sit down and listen to a wide selection of recorded bird and animal distress cries, you can't avoid the conclusion that they all sound very similar in pitch, sequence, and high and low notes. From a distance, it would be hard to tell which critter was squalling. One essential common characteristic seems to be the C-sharp note. Most of the serious squalls get to that high note which flips the predators' switch on. All of these distress sounds have a similar pulse."

There was other areas on his website whwere he talked about the high C/C-sharp note on how thats the note that will turn a predator on. some of the articles were very interesting and a couple were the same old stuff that i have heard a hundred times. So what do you fellas think about this angle of the C note.
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Re: High C

Postby LeviM » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:07 am

It sounds like your bored at work to me!! I don't believe every distress sounds has a high C note. A distress sound is a distress sound, and if the predator is intrested he will come a running
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Re: High C

Postby Daryl » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:48 am

:shock: someone has far to much time on there hands :?
I would rather have a slow hit than a fast miss...


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Re: High C

Postby Coyotehunter » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:59 am

I have a lot of respect for Major and he has always been very gracious with his time over the years when I have talked with him about coyotes. I really have not spent much time thinking about the High C when it comes to calling. There may be something to it but I have spent the last couple of years thinking about location so much that I have not spent much time considering or researching the sounds I am making. I really think that if you are on location my 4 year old could voice howl them in (if anyone wants to take that as a bet I will even give them odds :lol: ). Off location every little bit helps, and if there is any advantage in reaching the high C on stand with a call then it is probably worth checking into. Don't forget he does have a PHD and is very analytical in his approach to everything. Major certainly would not say it if he did not believe it and have some facts to back it up.
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Re: High C

Postby RandyRoede » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:19 am

Coyote vocalizations, until we get the actual words out of a coyotes mouth we all specualte!

I believe the intensity or lack of in any coyote vocalization is the key, I have always used this example, the first time your wife says quietly that dinner is ready and you don't come in, she comes out a second time and says dinner is ready and you don't come in and the third time she says it with a few added words that dinner is ready you tend to react and go in!!!

There are things associated with vocalizations that tend to happen with some regularity but nothing I have found that works 100 percent of the time. The warning howl ,bark etc. pack up your stuff and leave advice, well I have quite a few video's of these coyotes being called and killed. You work around dens and you will hear it in your sleep, you work big groups of coyotes in the winter and you will hear it from time to time, there are ways to fool those coyotes on occasion, not always but on occasion. Certain scenarios of vocalizations at certain times of the year will spook or call coyotes, any vocalization heard by a dispersed pup in Oct. will put him in high gear away from ya. Yet pups still intact with the adults may come in especially the male pups. Sometimes the adults let the pups go on ahead to the call and other time they woof them to a halt and come themselves??? This is why this sport is the greatest!!!

The information of population densities, intensity or agression in the responces to locating, family groups still together, extreme weather conditions, time of year, prey sources, or food sources, dead piles etc. dictate your type of vocalization or lack of it all together.

Not saying there might be something to this high C, an ultrasonic sound only heard by canines. Maybe there is!!! Major has done a ton of research and has more field experience than most. Everyone who calls owes him a little something!!!!
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Re: High C

Postby Prairie Ghost » Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:30 am

I agree Randy he has had a lot of passion in studying coyotes for many years. He also developed the call that is issued to every goverment hunter in the country that does any coyote work so he is no slouch thats for sure!

lyonch on the subject that you brought up i actually talked to him about that very thing at nationals and that was his reason why Les Johnson does so well over other guys at those tournaments. He was pretty convinced that Les whether he knows it or not is hitting some kind of "C" note that drives the coyotes crazy hence he shot with a partner 20 coyotes in a day and a half that year.

I don't know if i agree with that so much but that was Majors take on Les success.

If there is something to it then it is certainly worth looking into.

Coyotehunter: I agree i worry more about location. I can call in a coyote with and empty beer can on the right day from the right location!!! LOLOL
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Re: High C

Postby jaybic » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:01 am

Hey fellas,

I realize this is an old thread but take it for what its worth. I have been a guitar player/singer in a band for nearly 20 years(helps pay for my coyote hunting toys) and this is what little I know.

I have sat at home playing my guitar (not plugged in) and not every note sounded will make the dog howl but certain ones sure will( no, its not my lousy playing). When I play quickly and fly past a certain note, there is no reaction from the dog(doberman) but if I come to the same note and play it slowly while bending the string up which raised the pitch....kinda like a howl...then the dog wants to "howl along". With out trying to get too technical, this has occured between the 12-15th frets on the E and B strings. If you bend the B string up 1 fret.. its a C and if you bend it up 2 frets its a C sharp which is what was mentioned earlier. I think this is what the Major was speaking about, I certain pitch even if its a bit flat or sharp that almost forces the animal to respond.

ANY noise made has a certain pitch, your car engine, a hammer hitting a nail...coyote call falling out of your puss and bouncing off the binos...Everything...and you can also hit that "High C" in many different octaves. Think of a 10 year old kid and a 350lb man both singing the same song...both singing the same notes(in key) but they sound much different..same note..different octave. Its still that High C and thats how Randy Anderson( and maybe the rest of you) can pick the BIG MALE out of a group yip howl. Most experienced musicians including Randy have the trained ears to pick out 1 coyote voice and listen to it while blocking out the others and thats the same as how musicians learn to sing vocal harmonies. Randy demonstrates his ears on his videos by being able to "play"songs with a coyote call. His control is has to be quite good to be able to do that, but he iss a sax player also(reeded instrument and worlds biggest coyote call) which explains his talent with a mouth call.

BTW, I do not believe that there is a coyote out there that listens to any one of us howl and goes.."ya know, that sure sounded like my coyote buddy Rufus the Rabit Slayer, but I think he was a bit flat on that high C so its probably really a caller so Im not gonna go over there". Unless your howl sounds like a foghorn.

I dont know if this taught anyone anything or I am just rambling but being that you mentioned music...ect..ect...it is any area where I have a bit of knowledge.

Anyway, hope this helps. Good luck to you all this year.

Jaybic
Last edited by jaybic on Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: High C

Postby LeviM » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:09 am

you made some good points, very intresting! Got alittle lost with musical langugage! thats just my lack of knowledge when it comes to the technical side of music
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Re: High C

Postby jaybic » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:26 am

Thanks Levi,

I was hoping to avoid that but its kinda tricky to explain with out it. You know when you start all the way in on your howler and then work towards the very tip how the pitch raises right?... When bending a guitar string up towards the roof or down towards the floor does the same thing. A guitar "howl" if you will. Or like a trombone. When the slide moves away from the player the pitch gets deep or goes down and if he pulls it toward him the pitch goes up. a trombone "howl".

P.s. I am not kidding here but in reality, you should be able to howl in a coyote using a trombone or a sax. I think I just found my new secret coyote locating weapon. A trumpet.

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Re: High C

Postby LeviM » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:52 am

jaybic wrote:Thanks Levi,

I was hoping to avoid that but its kinda tricky to explain with out it. You know when you start all the way in on your howler and then work towards the very tip how the pitch raises right?... When bending a guitar string up towards the roof or down towards the floor does the same thing.
Jaybic


Now your using my language, the only instrument I know how to play, my howler! :wink:

very intresting
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