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High C

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Re: High C

Postby lyonch » Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:22 am

LeviM wrote:
Now your using my language, the only instrument I know how to play, my howler! :wink:



The only instrument i ever hear you play is you voice when you sing those sweet sounding french words when all hell breaks loose on stand :wink:

jaybic you made some very interesting and good points. Just for my curiosity can you tell the difference between notes when you howl on a howler? I also remember that major never really talkes about the howl as the c-sharp but he mentioned and talked a lot about the distress sounds and that when that distress sound hit the high-c it triggered a response. It great to know that your observative enough to noctice that your k-9 howls to certain notes and not others.
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Re: High C

Postby Coyotehunter » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:17 pm

Well, that is a great post. My dads side of the family is all musical. dad played guitar and sang in a band for 30+ years and my grandfather played to many instruments to list and also sang. I used to play a little guitar but drumming was my thing. played in a few bands....blah blah blah.....any ways. You make some great observations. Got me think'n.
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Re: High C

Postby jaybic » Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:30 pm

Lyonch,

You are right, my C-sharp was my own typo when I meant high-C so disregard any "C-sharp" reference. Anyway, Yes, it is possible to know what notes you are blowing on any call and most musicians would be able to know but probably not the novice or non-musician. As for can I do it, yes. I can take the notes that come out of my howler and find them on my guitar or with my voice. I never thought if this before but now that I am on to it, I am going to experiment big time with this and I am also going watch the Les Johson videos and see if its a high-c that he is actually hitting.

The easiest thing to do is for a nonmusician might be to find a buddy with a guitar/church piano...ect..ect and have him play a C note(5th string, 3rd fret) or stop by a guitar store and have the person there play it for you and record it on your cell phone if it takes video clips. Then you can listen to it and try to duplicate it whenever you want. This should be quite interesting as you explain to him how you want guitar ear training lessons to help you kill more coyotes.

Anyway, this thread really has me thinking and I am going to put notes to all my calls and do a sort of test on this high-c thing when I am in ND(5-14dec08) calling coyotes.

Jaybic


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Re: High C

Postby Dcoy » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:59 am

Been reading a lot lately and working on hand calling.Recalled this thread.Here's the quote Chris was likely looking for.Its in Majors book,"Talking To Coyotes With the Song Dog".(chapter 4,page 20).

"Research has also determined that if a coyote has howled within 20 minutes of your howl,it cannot respond because of its brain chemistry.Coyotes have a brain trigger in howling.After it has howled,it cannot do it again for 20-30 minutes.It is interesting to watch them try."

Also,bought the "coyote Man"from this site and what a great book about Ray Alcorn.Just finished a chapter that likely explains part of what I often see between coyotes and their prey.In the coyote-deer interaction thread I labeled it a 'dance of death' when the yotes sort of 'false charge'does and fawns.Short runs,then quit,then just go on their way.After reading,I bet part of it is coyotes(especially the young) just 'testing the speed of their prey'.Its part of the learning/training to survive process.good stuff!


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Re: High C

Postby lyonch » Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:21 am

Dcoy wrote: Also,bought the "coyote Man"from this site and what a great book about Ray Alcorn.Just finished a chapter that likely explains part of what I often see between coyotes and their prey.In the coyote-deer interaction thread I labeled it a 'dance of death' when the yotes sort of 'false charge'does and fawns.Short runs,then quit,then just go on their way.After reading,I bet part of it is coyotes(especially the young) just 'testing the speed of their prey'.Its part of the learning/training to survive process.good stuff!


When a coyote false charges i thought that they do that not to only test the speed of there prey, but when the prey gets use to that false chase, he will not run and just expect the coyote to stop. Until one day the coyote doesn't stop and "the chase is on".
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Re: High C

Postby Dcoy » Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:31 am

Makes sense to me Chris.I know they get em once in awhile.Here's what I think you should buy Levi for Xmas.Get him about a sixpack of deer decoys.Get him a nice fitting deer cape to wear.Have him carry all this to the location.Start calling and then have him fast crawl away when the pack shows up to investigate.Solid research plan there!


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Re: High C

Postby Daryl » Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:32 am

lyonch wrote:When a coyote false charges i thought that they do that not to only test the speed of there prey, but when the prey gets use to that false chase, he will not run and just expect the coyote to stop. Until one day the coyote doesn't stop and "the chase is on".



If this is true Lyonch the game of false chase to get the prey use to it. In a group of deer lets say how does the coyote pick the same animal time after time for it to get use to the false chase and expect the coyote to stop. Just wondering because you say
he will not run and just expect the coyote to stop. Until one day the coyote doesn't stop and "the chase is on".


Just a question!
I would rather have a slow hit than a fast miss...


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Re: High C

Postby LeviM » Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:04 am

Dcoy wrote:Makes sense to me Chris.I know they get em once in awhile.Here's what I think you should buy Levi for Xmas.Get him about a sixpack of deer decoys.Get him a nice fitting deer cape to wear.Have him carry all this to the location.Start calling and then have him fast crawl away when the pack shows up to investigate.Solid research plan there!


Dcoy I would need a 12 pack of miller lite on top of that :D
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Re: High C

Postby jaybic » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:23 am

Funny that this post comes up again because I did a little research which may not mean a thing but here goes.

I popped in the first Predatorquest video and then made sure my guitar was in tune and then sat there and listened, found the note he is blowing on my guitar, and compared and to my ear, Les is not always blowing a C note but does dance around it a lot. Sometimes a bit sharp(above it) or flat(below it) but real close most of the time.

Now if C(high, low or middle) was the magic note that made coyotes come in and that is all a guy blew, you would want to blow a call so as that you stayed on C all the time, BUT, you would have very monotone calling(talking just sqalling here not howling). It would be one single note(like a car horn-it never changes pitch)...the only thing you could change would be the length and volume but never the pitch but it might be similar to a fawn bleat maybe? I think he mentions deer/antelope bleats in that DVD and does say that where you find antelope herds, you will find coyotes. Kinda makes a guy think, No?

Is it this simple? Just find a herd of antelope and blow a very monotone note as close to C as you can get and watch them(coyotes) come Les Johnson style(5 on one stand). Hell, I dont know. I think I am imagining things now. :shock:

Anyway, enough of my ramblings but If you guys want, take a think on this and post any ideas.

Thanks,

Jaybic

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Last edited by jaybic on Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: High C

Postby Daryl » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:32 am

I thought the C thing had to do with a howl. Does Les howl? I don't remember him using vocalization much but maybe I am wrong.
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Re: High C

Postby LeviM » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:41 am

Daryl wrote:I thought the C thing had to do with a howl. Does Les howl? I don't remember him using vocalization much but maybe I am wrong.


Its just not howling, its also to do with distress sounds, if you can keep your distress sound around the "c" note its suppose to appeal to coyotes. Jaybic- What can us musical illerate coyote hunters compare a C note too??
Last edited by LeviM on Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: High C

Postby Daryl » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:44 am

I see I thought it was only in howls. Thanks Levi
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Re: High C

Postby jaybic » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:07 am

What might give you a reference note for that C is a song you are familiar with. Here are a couple examples. Maybe try to listen to one of these songs to pound that pitch into your head or as soon as the note sounds, Pause it and try hear the pitch in your head and mimic it with a call before you lose it.

"Dust in the wind" by Kansas. The very first note you hear is a C. and it kinda drones on that C note. Listed for that first note(the most bassy sounding one and you will hear it drone on in the background of the song.

"Cat scratch fever" by Nugent....3rd note played is also a perfect C...you know it.......ba ba baba. That BABA is a perfect C chord hit twice. Maybe he wrote this to call bobcats? Thats bad huh?

"Patience" by GNR also starts its first note with a perfect C note.

Maybe just watch the video and try to mimic Les's calls exactly. Just let your ears tell you when you are blowing it the same pitch as he is and if you turn the volume way up on the TV so you can hear it in one ear and your own call in the other. When you cant tell which is which, ya pretty much are hitting it.

I know, not too easy but its the best I got.


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Re: High C

Postby jaybic » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:31 am

I got another idea.

If you go to a music store, or on ebay, maybe even walmart, you may be able to pick up a guitar tuner which has an acoustic mic in it for tuning acoustic guitars but you can actually hum into it( blow a call into it) and it will read the note but you have to hold a steady pitch. A cheap tuner might be 20.00 or so but they can get real spendy or online might be real cheap to. It dont need to be anything fancy but it will sure tell ya.

Otherwise, the number pad on a phone or cell phone are all different notes(you can hear the different "beeps" when you dial) and one of those may be a C. I can check mine at home and tell you for sure but all phones man not have the same "notes" or "pitches" in them. If that did work you could actually listen to it right on stand(bad idea tho) to make sure you were blowing a C.

Jaybic


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Re: High C

Postby LeviM » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:34 am

lots of good info!
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