22-243win

[bucksnbears]

slow may fine for standing coyotes at known ranges but give me fast at unknown and moving (missed) targets any day... world of diffennce

[jaybic]

No offense to anyone but if any one goes telling the guys at benchrestcentral.com that their production rifle shoots 1/2 inch at 300 yards all day long, they are gonna get called a liar in a hurry by lots of guys that cant shoot that well with a 5000.00 custom 6ppc. ask a fella named Tony Boyer. Not that it cant happen, its just the all day long part of it that the best bench shooters in the world seem to have trouble with. Not my opionion but just sayin'

jaybic

[bucksnbears]

Jaybic... your alive

[leadbiscuit]

I guess I fall into the slow bullet camp. I'm wondering if barebackjack meant 1/2 moa at 300. I do have a 22-250 ai with a 1 in 8 shilen that will shoot under two inches at 500 yds, but it is a long ways from factory, and far too heavy to hike around with(12lbs). The good news guys, is that we don't have to use another man's rifle. We can shoot whatever we like.

[jaybic]

I was kinda thinking that same thing. 1/2 moa sounds much more possible to me I guess. I know myself that I have a hard time shooting consistant 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards much less 300 but on the other hand, I know BBJ is a trained shooter and knows what he is doing so maybe him and his rifle can do what he is saying it can do.

[Prairie Ghost]

A coyotes real vital 'I can go pick'em up" zone is about 9" by 5" if your gun shoots one hole groups at 1000 good for you but it gets to a point where its elememtery. Shoot what you can kill and drink the rest away.

[Tim Anderson]

No offense to anyone but if any one goes telling the guys at benchrestcentral.com that their production rifle shoots 1/2 inch at 300 yards all day long, they are gonna get called a liar in a hurry by lots of guys that cant shoot that well with a 5000.00 custom 6ppc. ask a fella named Tony Boyer. Not that it cant happen, its just the all day long part of it that the best bench shooters in the world seem to have trouble with. Not my opionion but just sayin'

I don't know Tony personnely but have chatted with him and others on a chat-line and also have seen the results of some of the shooting matches he enters and he can shoot very well..
A good rule of thumb is a 3" group at 300 yds and a 4" group at 400 yds. and so on, it also depends on who is behind the trigger and what his rifle is capable of..

[xdeano]

I wouldn't pull that BS card just so quickly. I'm quite certain that a 1/2" group at 300yds is very capable and repeatable under the right conditions. When I was doing load development I was able to print 1/2 and 3/4" groups at 300yds about every time. It wasn't to hard either. I did a ladder test at 300 and had a powder charge range of about 2.5grains and the group of 20 rounds through that powder change was about 3" It made it a hard time figuring out what was going on. And all these tests were off the ground using a bipod and sand bags for a rest. I can print 2.5" groups at 600 and you can talk to Nathan Dagley from Straightshootgunsmith about that, he witnessed it. I've shot 4" groups at 817 yds with a 10mph wind at 2 oclock off the bed of my truck the other day without trying to much, which is still under 1/2 MOA, not by much, but it is.

xdeano

[Coyotehunter]

if everyone could shoot these incredible groups on demand as consistantly as they claim.................I have been around some great shooters and been to some competition shoots and you just do not see the kind of groups that you hear guys brag about.

[xdeano]

i'm definitely not saying that everyone or every rifle is going to be able to group like this. I know only a few people that can shoot like this on demand. It has a lot to do with the equipment.

For a factory rifle the 1 MOA is par.

But for the 9"x5" square that you're aiming for, that's basically 500yds, with given wind for the lateral drift of 2" on either side. Wind is the killer. If you can read the wind effectively you might have something going. That is if you can get the coyote to stand broad side, if he's facing you sitting, things just went south. now your aiming point shrunk to about 2.5 MOA.

i guess i don't throw the bs flag so quickly, because anything is possible, and a lot of people have proven it. I know a few people that have shot coyotes past 1000yd without much of a problem. so with that it's still only 1/2 MOA on the 9"x5" aim point at 1K.

xdeano

[jaybic]

Just a disclaimer,
I did not throw a BS card. I just said that there are people over at BR central that would. I also said that I am sure that BBJ knows what he is doing and maybe he can shoot it that well. I also know that lots of folks use the term "all day long" and dont literally mean that every single 5 shot group they shoot in a day is under .5 at 300 yards. Just for kicks, I looked up the 300 yard IBS and NBRSA 300 yard world record groups. There are some groups that run around .149 to .329. Some are single 5 shot groups, some are 10 shot and some are aggs. I am just saying that these guys shoot the most expensive and accurate rifles in the world and they do it in front of an entire firing line loaded with some of the best group shooters in the world. I think I know the answer to this but what does a 1/2 inch group figure out to at 300 yards in terms of MOA? I dont know exactly but the closest idea that I have is under 1/4 MOA. And I apologize in advance if my calculation is wrong but that is pretty spectacular to me. I wish I could shoot like that. I am just not ready to line my factory gun up against Jim Borden, Lowell Hottenstein or Tony Boyer and try it but if anyone can, best of luck to you and I hope you do well.

Again, I am not trying to offend anyone or throw any Bs flags. I just think there is a reason that you do not see any factory guns on the line at a National championship IBS or NBRSA match.

[xdeano]

no i was also saying that you have to know people before you throw the bs card, i know you didn't by many seem skeptical.
3" at 300yds is 1moa
1.5" at 300yds is 1/2 moa
Just divide 1/2" by 3 (for 300yds) = .1666667moa
I'd have to admit that is a very tight group. I know my old Remington 700P would do close to that at 300yds, but i did a lot of crap to that rifle to make it shoot.

I can tell you that i'm not running a factory rig. but mine was guaranteed from the company to shoot 3/8" groups @100yds with Factory Federal Match 175g SMK's and it'll do all of that and then some. When i first took this rifle out after i'd bought it, it shot a one hole 5 round group, and it looked like i'd shot 1 round with 4 fliers. I was astonished. I load my own rounds that mirror factory stuff.

xdeano

[leadbiscuit]

Finally shot the 22-243 at 200yds this afternoon. Fired three five shot groups off a bipod with a bunny ear bag on the rear. First group had four shots in 3/4 inch with a fifth that opened the group to damn near two inches. No denying what happened there.... I pulled it, bigtime. the other two groups ran 1 1/8 and 1 1/4 inches. That's probably about as good as I'm gonna do off a bipod with a 3-9. Load looks like a winner. Time to work up a drop chart and hopefully find some critters to shoot at.

have a good one
leadbiscuit

[xdeano]

congrats, keep up the good work man. Maybe an optics upgrade and the groups will shrink.

get some pics up of the gun, everyone likes to see nice toys.

xdeano

[leadbiscuit]

as requested, a couple photos