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22-6mm Rem resizing problem?

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22-6mm Rem resizing problem?

Postby broncstomper » Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:33 pm

Hello all,

Don't you guys just love us new members? We come up with the weirdest things.

This may not be about reloading it may be gunsmithing. But we'll start here. I have been building a xp100 rem in 22-6mm over the last few years as funds aloud. I had the barrel made sometime back, which is a heavy barrel you might call it a varmit barrel, its 14inches long, the twist is 1x9 I think, and I just this past xmas got the dies. I have the rear grip stock almost finished. It was the xp100R model which has the right hand grip. Well I'm left handed so I started sanding, and sanding, and sanding, and more sanding till I have most of the thumb rest removed, not perfect but enough. I too had to inlet the barrel channel to fit the larger barrel. I pick the 22-6mm because I have another xp100 in 6mm rem, and I didn't want to go thru the fire forming. I know the fire forming isn't a really big deal I just didn't want to.

So now I have my dies which are Hornady and I start running the 6mm brass thru the decap/sizing die. Just for the heck of it I put one of reformed brass in the gun and turn down the bolt or try to. It doesn't fit, 'easily'. I don't have a spec for the 22-6mm case so I'm kind of guessing on that part but I start measuring. I measure everything from case length to neck size and thickness to even the length of the shoulder. I would measure the shoulder angle but I don't have a way to do that. I can force the bolt closed and force it open and remeasure and I still can't find anything. So! I thought I would cap and load powder and bullet and fire a round to see what the spent case looked like. Well, the spent case can go in and out of the action/barrel just fine. I remeasure EVERYTHING and still nothing. This a gunsmith would call a headspacing issue but I'm not a gunsmith, I can do quit a bit but not barrel work. I inked the bullet, case neck, shoulder and a small part of the case from the shoulder and loaded the case into the barrel and closed the bolt, hoping that something would rub the ink off and I could tell where the problem was. No such luck. I check the land depth while I was there too.

My only clue is, I see a sharper shoulder angle point and the neck angle point on the fired case. The fired case neck and shoulder are sharp and crisp while the resized cases are a little more rounded. I thought to push the case a little farther into the die but I'm bottoming out already.

I hope all this makes sense. Any thoughts? I could use some help with the 22-6mm case specs. if anyone has them.

Thanks all

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Re: 22-6mm Rem resizing problem?

Postby leadbiscuit » Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:09 pm

If I had to guess what you've run into is simply a tolerance issue between the chamber and dies. It is possible that your chamber is on the small side of whats considered acceptable and your dies are on the big side. I've run into this before with wildcat dies. As long as you can easily chamber fireformed brass I wouldn't worry about it. Use fireformed brass for hunting. I wouldn't recommend fiddling with it too much. If you know the necked down unfired brass will fit in the gun, run it all through and fireform it. Constantly pulling hard extracting cases out of the gun can put undue stress on the bolt handle and that neat little rem. extractor. That's a lesson I learned the hard way. And double check to make sure the neck diameter of your loaded rounds is safe in your chamber. The smith who did the work should be able to tell you what your chamber neck diameter is.

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Re: 22-6mm Rem resizing problem?

Postby Tim Anderson » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:39 pm

How about some pic.s of the cases and one with blueing on it and run through the chamber and also a fired case...


There is nothing wrong with haveing a gun built to shoot a certain cartridge if one wishes to do so.. But I have to question youre choice of cartridge for shooting in a 16" pistol barrel..
What are you gaining by useing a 6mm rem over a 22-250?? With that short of a barrel and big cartridge not all the powder is going to be burned and if you go to a fast burning powder the case is'nt going to be 75% full and then there is the chance of a hang-fire due to the powder not filling the case...
If you do decide to use a faster powder make sure you use a filler wad to keep the powder to the back of the case and the filler weight has to be included in youre powder charge. Good luck with youre project.....


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Re: 22-6mm Rem resizing problem?

Postby Coyotehunter » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:58 am

Who chambered the barrel for you...........he should have the reamer handy. What .22-6MM dies are you using. Brand?
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Re: 22-6mm Rem resizing problem?

Postby broncstomper » Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:55 pm

Thanks Guys for you reply,

leadbiscuit, The tolerance idea is what I really hope is the issue then I will just load and go. The bolt opens easy after firing, it is only hard while loading the cartridge into the chamber. Thanks :D

Tim, the original barrel was a 35 rem. I thought about a 22-243 but since I already have a 6mm rem I thought I would just use the 6mm brass and neck it down. And! I thought it would be fun. Nothing more than that in the decision process. The one case I loaded and fired I use 50grs of H1000 in it. Well it all would go in, even trying to compress it I couldn't get it in. So, I backed down to 48grs and that barely fit compressed. So, yes I'll be looking for faster powder and to get good accuracy. I know I'll never get the speed but I'm ok with that. I know to use a filler in a partially filled case, I've never done needed to till now, but I didn't know the filler factored into the charge weight, you learn something everyday. What powders would you suggest. I have another post concarning load data for this thingy just post there if you want. Thanks

Coyotehunter, the dies are brand spankin new from Hornady. Thanks :D

My gunsmith for this project no longer lives here around Denver, he moved up to SD and was working for Dakota Arms, and because of the economy he was let go and now he is with Precision also there in SD. I have his email and yes I plan to talk with him too just haven't done that yet. :D

Thanks guys I appreciate the help.

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Re: 22-6mm Rem resizing problem?

Postby Tim Anderson » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:54 pm

The reason the filler has to be included with charge weight is because the filler will also burn.. The burn rate for the filler is unknown so when used the load will have to be worked up a few grains at a time till max..

I have plenty of books with load info for this cartridge but relates mostly to rifles chambered for it.. I'm thinking you may need a powder in the med. slow burn rate but not sure of how much of this will burn in such a short barrel.. A shorter and more on the fatter side cartridge would be more efficient...


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Re: 22-6mm Rem resizing problem?

Postby leadbiscuit » Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:57 pm

I would think something in the 4350 range would be a good powder to start with, given the short barrel. I wouldn't mind being around to watch a few rounds rounds being fired at sunset. Should make for quite a show!!!


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Re: 22-6mm Rem resizing problem?

Postby broncstomper » Sat Apr 16, 2011 3:45 pm

Tim, Leadbiscuit,

I''ll try to remember to shoot a few at dusk or night to see the fireworks. My first rifle was a 7.65 Argentine Mauser carbine. Dad bought it for me to use deer hunting back east. I was maybe 15 or 16 at the time and we lived in northern Alabama. That little carbine only had, maybe, a 18in barrel. It had already been sporterized but had the original barrel only the stock had been messed with. We used to joke about shooting and cooking the deer all at the same time. :lol: I still have that Mauser and it it still chambered in the 7.65. I have thought about building something on that action but I really don't like the magazine, it is single stack and sticks down under the stock, handy for loading and unloading but not very pretty.

Tim, what books do you have with load data, I'll see if I can find copies somewhere. Also, what makes a good filler? I have heard of using filler before, in light handgun loads like for Cowboy shoots, but I have never needed anything until now. :shock:

Thanks guys

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Re: 22-6mm Rem resizing problem?

Postby Tim Anderson » Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:32 pm

I have Wild-cat cartridges and cartridges of the world along with P.O. Ackley and about 2 doz. more here and there. I've been at it for awhile so I have a good size collection of books.. If I get time tommorrow I will look up a few loads for ya...
The filler is called Dacron ( not sure of spelling), The Hornady manual mentions it in one of there manuals. What I used was the same white material used for lineing quilts(batting), not sure if its the same but it worked non the less.. Years ago in my search for the perfect load for fur I dabbled around with reduced loads in a few cartridges and this is where I used Dacron....


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Re: 22-6mm Rem resizing problem?

Postby Coyotehunter » Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:03 pm

I have shot it all out of mine....50gr. of H1000 is a max charge out of a improved chamber after it is fire formed....... 4831 is the main powder to worry about case capacity (concerning flash over) and you will not have that problem with the .22-6mm in the 4350 and slower powders. R-22 is what I have found to shoot the best. I can post more on that under a different thread I see you have up. I have had the same problem as you in the past and I would like to see, when you are full length sizing how for down in to the web of the case you are getting. Is it a improved shoulder or just standard?
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Re: 22-6mm Rem resizing problem?

Postby Tim Anderson » Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:17 pm

Coyotehunter I thought youre 22-6mm is chambered in a rifle.... broncstomper has it chambered in a pistol with 16" barrel, Its a whole nother animal......

To find out if all the powder is burning up in the barrel you can shoot the gun at night and look to see how long the muzzle flash is or you can set up a target so many feet from the muzzle and have a piece of paper towel taped to the target. If the powder is not burning completely you will have a bunch of fly-shit specks on paper towel where the powder burned through..


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Re: 22-6mm Rem resizing problem?

Postby broncstomper » Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:59 pm

Coyotehunter, Tim,

Thanks guys for your continuing thoughts, I found the 50gr H1000 from another reload data site and they add to the 50grs up to I think it was 52 or 53grs. I can't even get 50grs into the case. By the way its just plain 22-6mm, no shoulder changes. If either of you two have a schematic of the 22-6mm case with dimensions I would love to have a copy. email probably would be best. Tim, I made some pictures but they are quit large, I cropped them down but they are still large. I started to put one or two on this post but I couldn't figure out how. So if email is ok with you two and I can get to your email address then I'll do that.

In another post we were talking with leadbiscuit I think it was, Tim gave him the scoop on 260s I mentioned I have a 308 with a eighteen inch barrel, its a little rem. 600. It flames pretty good at dusk and dark. I hadn't thought about going to a faster powder with it but I think I'll have a go with it too. I generally have been using varget with the 308 which is above middle on the burn scale so I'll see what else I have on hand.

Thanks

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Re: 22-6mm Rem resizing problem?

Postby Tim Anderson » Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:28 pm

A flame comeing out the end of a barrel is just part of the picture, some powders will do it no matter what.. Win. 760 or H-414 for example..( a magnum primer would help in this case) Another way to check is with a Chrono-graph to see if all the powder is being burned...
Say you are mid-way through youre load work up and getting a vel. at 3400 and you add a few more gr. of powder and don't see a increase in the vel. and pressure is still mild and you add more powder and see a very little increase in Vel.. This tells me that not all of the powder is burning inside the barrel, if it was you would note an increase in vel and pressure as you increased the powder charge.. I have to throw in a caution flag though when a load is at max or a little past the pressure will still go up but the vel. will stay the same or even drop a little in some cases giveing you a false sense that the load is not at max when actually it is past the point and just a matter of time before something gives..


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