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Near wind/ Far Wind?

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Re: Near wind/ Far Wind?

Postby barebackjack » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:19 pm

Prairie Ghost wrote:I'm curious of the guys on here FOR COYOTE HUNTING are using wind charts and clicking on their long shots? Kentucky Windage with a chart, or just don't pay attention to the wind at all?

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Depends on the situation.

For my .22-250, its pretty basic as its pretty much a 400 yard gun, 500 under IDEAL conditions, which are rare. I know this rifle/load/scope better than I know my right hand, so I simply dope the wind, and kentucky it. "Dialing" with a .22-250 is unnecessary IMO simply due to its effective range on coyotes.

For long shots with the big gun, it depends on whats going on. I keep a key ring in the bandoleer with a bunch of small laminated range card "cheat sheets", one has a diagram of the reticle with my wind and drop holdover points marked, another is a basic ballistic range card, another has some equations for mil ranging and a cosine/angle chart, and I even have another one with ranges worked out for coyote sized targets, all I have to do is measure the coyote in mils in the scope, look at the card and I can get my range (even divided this one down to "big" dogs and "small" dogs :mrgreen: ). I can get just about out to 770 yards with my .260 utilizing just the scope hash marks as holdover points. Not the most precise method, but sometimes you just dont have time for precise.

If the shot is developing quickly, and depending on range, I am very likely to just range the target, go to my cards, and get a shot off.

Say I got a coyote at 500-600 yards but he's jumpy and starting to move off. Id likely range him, dope the wind, reference my card for my holdover point (most get memorized with practice), and shoot.

If I got a coyote out there at 600-700 yards, whatever, curled up sleeping, or just milling about, or sitting on a side hill barking his head off at me, ive most likely got allllllllllll the time in the world. In this situation, im gonna gather as much data as I can for a precise shooting solution and dial this guy in.

The degree of precision is limited by the time I have to make the shot.

I also rarely dial for wind (unless is strong enough that I run out of scope). If my shooting solution tells me im gonna have half a mil of drift, ill just hold over half a mil. Wind just changes to often and quickly to dial for unless you absolutely have to and if youve dialed for it, you have to remember how much you dialed before you make a "in the scope" correction.


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Re: Near wind/ Far Wind?

Postby xdeano » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:30 am

I'll agree having some type of instrument is handy to have when you're practicing how to read the wind and to get a good idea of what your indicators look like in comparison to your anemometer. But you're not going to have time to hold your anemometer up and wait for the wind when you're out coyote hunting. Now if you're going to check the location quick before you head out, then yeah it's a handy little tool to have in your bag. But besides that they'll do you no good if you're shooting at long range, unless you have an anemometer strapped to the coyotes back, and in that case you'd better take the collar off. :)

I tend not to dial wind for close stuff, but i'll dial wind on occation for longer shots. I will always dial elevation for long shots, because it is a constant variable.

xdeano


Prairie Ghost wrote:I'm curious of the guys on here FOR COYOTE HUNTING are using wind charts and clicking on their long shots? Kentucky Windage with a chart, or just don't pay attention to the wind at all?

Dean i would disagree on the Anemometers or "wind meters" Someone that is going to try to learn to read mirage or read the in the field material needs to be able to check the wind and know what it is blowing. Reading the wind with your indicators and then checking it with an istrument is a real good way to learn how to read the wind. If not you're hoping the weather man was right and we all know how often that happens.
“It’s better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand years as a lamb.” -Mussolini


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Re: Near wind/ Far Wind?

Postby Dcoy » Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:18 am

Wow,lots of good stuff here.However,lets face it,the vast majority of us shouldn't be shooting at critters over 500 yards.600 max.Rare you can't get yourself within that range with a little effort.(targets,competition and 'fun' shooting is different except for a few experts like Dean IMO).Consider getting closer and/or repositioning to get more straight up or downwind angles-keeping 'scent' issues in mind of course.
Again,for the vast majority of us I think the solution is basics:

Know as best possible the wind speed for the day and at the time in question in the area.

Understand basic math issues like 'full value' etc.

Know your rifles TRUE ballistics.

Understand the 'center mass' concept and hold and/or dial accordingly.

Learn practical ways of estimating wind speed.A classic quote on this which I have posted in my office is from Maj.John Plaster:
"The classic way of estimating wind speed is to observe how it affects objects.A wind lightly felt upon your face is 3-5 mph;a 5-8 mph breeze agitates leaves on trees;an 8-12 mph raise dust;a 12-15 mph wind sways small trees;and open water begins to whitecap at 17 mph."(if you don't know of Plaster or doubt his bona fides,do a google on him)

So take your instruments and come up with 'practical' observations that fit your time and area-ie,snow swirls at (---)mph hour etc.Take those observations and PRACTICE at distance.It's NOT rocket science unless you make it that.Even with 'science',at 20 mph hour in varied terrain its a crap 'shoot' for all.(pun intended)


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Re: Near wind/ Far Wind?

Postby leadbiscuit » Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:46 pm

I thought maybe you gave up on us Dcoy. Haven't seen you around here in a while.

I would shorten your the range you gave to the average Joe by a smidge. Things start getting pretty dicey for most varmint rounds past 400yds. We need to remember that wind causes vertical issues as well. The farthest I can practice with a backstop (necessary in my neck of the woods), is 600yds. I'll accept that limitation when hunting for the time being. That's for coyotes.

Forgive me if it sounds like I'm being a smartass, but I'll gladly listen to Mr. Plaster if he ever shows up at my place and goes shooting with me. Until then, I'll take what I've taught myself into the field. I don't think its necessary for me to know what the wind speed actually is. I just need to know that when the wind is blowing "this" hard, and I'm shootin at "x" distance, I need to hold "this" far into the wind. In other words, I need to go out and practice in the wind instead of making up charts and whatnot.

If a fella is going to push past 400, he's gonna need a shitload of velocity or a high b.c. bullet. Or better yet, both.

have a good one
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Re: Near wind/ Far Wind?

Postby Dcoy » Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:41 pm

Leadbiscuit,
Hi.Absolutely no argument there from me.As to Maj Plaster,he'd agree with you as well. :D


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Re: Near wind/ Far Wind?

Postby Prairie Ghost » Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:01 am

Dcoy nice to see you around. Most shooters your interpretion i agree. However you and some of the other guys that have been shooting for a long time i believe can give some really good advice like you did about how to go about shooting in the wind. The averagae bedded fox which is your FORTea (sp) yes you should be able to sneek close but how about the denned up bitch across the drainage that watched you sit down with the dogs, or the tournament hunter that has one stall at 475 and it's the difference between 3rd and 2nd i thinks everyone should at least be thinking about it and then after that i again agree its all about practice!
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Re: Near wind/ Far Wind?

Postby leadbiscuit » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:03 am

One thing I used to do was to save all of my plastic pop bottles, milk jugs, etc. About every week or so I'd fill all of them up with water and set them out between 400 and 500 yards. The pop bottles are only about three inches across and make for a challenging target. Get down with a short bipod let the bullets fly. There's a fair mess to clean up afterwards, but it's an excellent way to practice. Nowhere near as boring as shooting at paper. My first 22-250 varmint barrel only lasted a year because of my endless fiddling with loads and shooting at bottles and jugs. Prarie dog shooting has gotten to be pretty darned expensive for anyone that has to travel to do it . It's still a great way to learn if you can afford to do it. I'm not sure I'll be going this year.


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Re: Near wind/ Far Wind?

Postby bucksnbears » Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:07 am

have done that exact thing LB. fill em and put some red food coloring in them :D
the more food you have in your mouth at one time, the better you can taste it!!!
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Re: Near wind/ Far Wind?

Postby Dcoy » Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:18 am

Yeh PG,I know with practice most can move out farther for sure.Xdeano and others have me convinced to keep pushing my limits even at my age.I need to find ways(leadbiscuits bottles etc)to make it fun and IMO it takes LOTS of practice and therefore lots of ammo and time.I personally have two side issues as well.First too dam many rifles and too dam many addictions which usually means too little time to do whats necessary.Both are nice problems to have but still problems.
Been tinkering at some distance recently and have a rifle rigged pretty good now so intend to try a few long shots tomorrow up there although not if its gusting into the 50mph range as its doing as I type. :shock:


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Re: Near wind/ Far Wind?

Postby xdeano » Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:12 pm

I agree that with practice, almost anything can be achieved.

But it has to be quality practice. Not just throwing up a board and throwing 30 rounds at it to see if you can hit it. You're better off shooting 5 precise accurate rounds a day, wether it's dry firing or practice rounds. You'll learn your gun, how it feels and where it breaks better when you're concentrating on those 5 rounds.

xdeano
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