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IMR vs Hodgdon

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IMR vs Hodgdon

Postby coyotebuster » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:59 pm

Just got into reloading last fall but with school and hunting I didn't really have the time to mess around with a bunch of different powders. I started off with IMR 4350 and still use it. I'm reloading for a .243 that I set up in hopes of being able to kill coyotes way out there with, I do a fair amount of practicing between 500-600 yds and the gun shoots great but what I'm wondering is how much will a shot at say anywhere from 450-650yds be affected by a change in temperature? I thinking about switching over to Hodgdon's line of extreme powders since its not affected by change in temp but would like to know how much of a difference it'll make or if its even worth it.


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Re: IMR vs Hodgdon

Postby xdeano » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:27 pm

It will make a difference. I only shoot Hodgdon powders. I have an 8lb keg of IMR4350 as well as other IMR powders, that i use to use and it's been sitting on the shelf for 10years now.
I use to shoot a lot of Varget through my 243, it loved it. You may just want to give it a try.

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Re: IMR vs Hodgdon

Postby Tim Anderson » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:07 pm

Temp sensative powder is way over rated for what it does vrs. other brands of powder. Basicly what its ment to do is stay the same in the summer months and through out the winter.. But you can grab most any powder off the self and work up a safe load dureing the summer and it will work fine in the colder month's..
Cold temps do funny things to a rifle and a bullet comeing out of a cold dirty barrel even a temp sensative powder can't change that...
In a worse case senario shooting a summer load in +5 temps may loose 50-100 fps, not that big of a deal unless you are shooting one of those AR's with a chopped barrel which is produceing low vel. to start with.
I choose a powder thats going to give me the highest vel. possable with good accuracy and not the other way around..

If a shooter thinks he needs to use the stuff then use it, I'm not going to waste my time worrying about it.... :D


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Re: IMR vs Hodgdon

Postby barebackjack » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:22 pm

Tim is right, if you only shoot "close" range and are only worried about MOC accuracy (minute of coyote), and dont mind re-zeroing every few weeks as temps change, temp "insensitive" powders probably wont mean much to you.

If you want to extend range, and milk every last bit of accuracy as you can in MANY environmental conditions, and maintain a higher degree of consistency, than the "extreme" powders are definitely worth a serious look due to their higher degree of burn consistency.

A 50-100 fps change in velocity from one week/month/day to the next, due to changing temps is a HUGE hassle to deal with. If you only shoot "close" range, not that big of a deal, if you dont mind groups opening up due to changing barrel dyamics due to changing pressures and velocities due to changing burn rate because of temp, dont worry about temp "insensitive" powders.

If you DO care about such things, take a look at the temp "insensitive" powders.

The hodgdon "extreme" line is all I use anymore. And with pretty much all the old IMR powders, and a few extras offered in this line, I dont know why one wouldnt try to use them.

I played with some RL15 in a new rifle this summer, no thanks. Made nice tight groups, got good velocity, but had pretty severe velocity swings over a relative small change in temp. Which consequently, negatively affected performance. Consistency is the name of the reloading game, and temp "insensitive" powders are just more consistent.


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Re: IMR vs Hodgdon

Postby barebackjack » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:26 pm

Ill also add, theres no such thing as a completely temperature "insensitive" powder.

Even the Hodgdon extreme powders are going to have some change in burn rate as temps change. They will however be smaller changes than many standard powders.

A standard powder might shift 100 fps over a xx degree temp change whereas a temp insensitive powder might only shift 50 fps over that same temperature change. At any rate, consistency consistency consistency is the name of the game.


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Re: IMR vs Hodgdon

Postby coyotebuster » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:14 pm

Thanks for the good info guys, once I get this last final out of the way I'll be making the switch to Hodgdon extreme, and getting out and finding some coyotes to burn up the rest of my IMR on. :twisted:


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Re: IMR vs Hodgdon

Postby lyonch » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:01 am

For what it's worth, I did a test last year on what i had for changes in velocity going from the summer months (i think i shot around 75-80 degrees) and noted a 10 shot string from the chronograph. I then did the same thing in the winter months (i think it was around 5-10 degrees) and noted that 10 shot string. I found the average to be approximately 10 fps different between the summer months and winter months. I didn't notice any change of impact from on temp range to the other. I was testing Varget when i did that test. I also tested H380 but not on the chrono. H380 shot about 1" lower at a 200 yard zero in the summer months versus the winter months. Now compund that out to 400 - 500 yards and i bet you will flat out miss that coyote! That's what i found with the little testing i did from extreme extruded powder to a standard spherical ball powder both by hodgon.
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Re: IMR vs Hodgdon

Postby Tim Anderson » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:04 am

H380 shot about 1" lower at a 200 yard zero in the summer months versus the winter months.


Thats one of my points I'm trying to get across. You know a certain powder/load that was tested in the summer and used in the winter is going to be off some in the colder month's so you just site the gun back in for this, know big whoop..
It sounds like you guys only check the rifles zero once a year.. I check mine at least once a week no matter what powder I use..
I don't hunt in the summer and most of my load work is done late fall early winter so I have none to very little changes..
" Someone mentioned why would'nt someone use the non sensative powder!! " Lots of reasons why.. My loads don't group well in some of my guns, Vel. is not fast enough compared to other powders I use, with some the shot to shot var. is spread to far, it dose'nt meter as well as some of the ball powders and I get a fuller case with some of the other powders as well.....


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Re: IMR vs Hodgdon

Postby barebackjack » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:36 pm

Tim,

With the selection of "extreme" powders out there today, I find it hard to believe one of them cannot be found that will shoot well, in any rifle, in any caliber. Like I said, most of the very popular IMR line of powders is now available in the Hodgdon Extreme lineup.

Also, with the plethora of information on loads and calibers on the internet now, finding the right powders through others experiences makes it even easier. All one has to do is google xxxx rifle loads. Gone are the days of having six, half full cans of powder laying around that "didnt work", if you do the research first.

I got a new .260 here last winter. It took me all of ten minutes on the internet to find that H4350 (the "extreme" version of IMR4350), and RL15 were the "go to" powders for that caliber. Sure there were others, but the vast majority of info was using those two. I tried them both, got good performance out of both, but opted for the more temp insensitive one for consistency's sake.

With the excellent selection of "extreme" powders out there, I dont know why anyone would opt for one with less consistent burn rates. ESPECIALLY if you're a year 'round shooter that may be shooting in a wide variety of conditions. Not worrying about POI changes due to a 30 degree temp change from the last time you shot is one less thing to worry about.

Also, if your running throat burning calibers, if you have to re-zero every few days or weeks to compensate for something as common as changing temps, thats eating away at your round count.


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Re: IMR vs Hodgdon

Postby barebackjack » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:47 pm

Theres a reason Varget is wildly popular amongst reloaders from .308 all the way to .223's........and its sure as hell not because it meters and pours well!


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Re: IMR vs Hodgdon

Postby Tim Anderson » Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:47 pm

Good points..

The go to powder for my 17 Pred. is Ramshot big-game or one of the VV powders like N-140, N-550. They give the best accuracy and vel in my rifle and several others that are out there.

I believe Big-game is what Bucks/ Bear uses in his 17-204..
I do use Hodgden in a few guns, H-335,H-322 and I use Hybrid 100 in my 20x47 Lapua but is being replaced by VV-N-150,N-550...
As for barrel were you'll get more of it from useing Varget than you will useing Imr-4350....

From Chris's testing his results are a little on the high side compared to my results. I'm only seeing a correction of 1-2 clicks for a 100 yd. zro, which is hardly enough to worry about..
I have two rifles I used for the V.H. contest this summer that I zeroed in before the shoot, I'll try to get out tomorrow and see how much of a change there is again, I have to check it anyway since I'll be heading back out to S.D.for a contest..

As for loads off the webb or what everyone uses that works canbe different from one rifle to the next , sure on a average the same load may work in another rifle but the results may vary in others so I don't rely on them much...
I've shot enough to know what works for me and the intended cartridge I plan to use, if a certain powder is'nt what I want I just look at the burn rate chart and pick the next slower or faster powder that gives high vel
. and accuracy for that cartridge.
Restricting yourself to one type of powder or bullet weight can bite you in the ass later on if they come in short supply or are discountinued...


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Re: IMR vs Hodgdon

Postby lyonch » Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:53 am

TA - my test was with a .22-250 shooting a 52 grain sierra bullet being pushed by 41.5 grains of H380 in case any of that infor makes any difference, i don't know. It was about 1" exactly from my experience on a 200 yard zero.


BBJ - i agree 100% that dang varget does not meter and pour well :lol:
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Re: IMR vs Hodgdon

Postby leadbiscuit » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:06 pm

Let's see what's under the bench right now..... 8 pounders of Varget, Benchmark, H1000, and Ramshot Magnum. 1 pounders of H4831 and H4350. The Ramshot line is advertised as temp stable, but I haven't tested it. To be fair, I still have several pounds of RL15 and a pound of RL10x. The reloder 15 absolutely screamed in my old 14 twist 22-250AI (4150fps with a 50gr v max). The reloader 10x I found to be about the only powder that worked well in every 204 barrel I tried it in. My "friends" went on a 204 kick a few years back. I ended up loading for 7 or 8 of them in the course of a year or so. 2 of those barrels were mine.

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Re: IMR vs Hodgdon

Postby Tim Anderson » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:46 pm

You can see by looking in my cabinet what I use the most. VV on top shelf, Hodgen and big game second shelf, and imr and a few other brands on bottom shelf..
Image
With the main powders I do use I can use them in more than just one rifle or Cal. very flexable compared to some of the other powders I have on hand.
17 Rem with 30 gr.bullets/ N-140, N-540, AA2230

17 Pred. Big game, N-140,N-540,N-550

20x47 L. Big game, N-540, N-550, Hybrid 100

22-250 Varget, 4320, N-140, N-540

22-250 ackley N-540, big game, N-140, N-550

6mm H.L.S. N=140, 3031.

243 IMR 4350, N-140, N-550, varget


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