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Hodgdon CFE?

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Hodgdon CFE?

Postby Cuts Crooked » Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:34 pm

Getting ready to set up for reloading .223. I haven't reloaded for quite a few years and when I did a lot of it, it was for handguns and shotguns. Also did a LOT of black powder cartridge loading.

Soooo......today I acquired a pound of CFE 223. Claims it stops copper fouling. Anyone have any experience with this stuff?


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Re: Hodgdon CFE?

Postby Coyotehunter » Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:48 pm

Nope.....I have not heard of that one.


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Re: Hodgdon CFE?

Postby Cuts Crooked » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:19 pm



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Re: Hodgdon CFE?

Postby Cuts Crooked » Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:48 am

Ok, I get good accuracy out of this stuff!!!!! I found a load, that I worked up to, of 26.8 grains that shoots into 1" groups at 100yds in both of my .223s. This is happy making fer me! :D However, it is the DIRTIEST powder I think I've ever used...at least insofar as laying down a good film of carbon everywhere! I'm beginning to suspect it keeps copper fouling at bay by sooting the bore up so much that copper can't stick to it! :?
I called Hodgdon and spoke with Tech support about the problem with heavy fouling and was told that this gets better if you run the stuff at near max loads, which is 27.8 grains in the AR action only. and 27.4 in all other .223s.

Not that I have all that much experience reloading, but I have found that I usually don't get the best accuracy out of top end loads, the best seems to come somewhere in the middle/slightly warm loads most of the time. I'm going to continue to use this stuff for a while, but I may look around for something else. I like not having to mine copper out my bores.....but that carbon fouling is almost as bad! :shock:


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Re: Hodgdon CFE?

Postby Cuts Crooked » Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:29 am

Forgot to follow up on this one.

Upped the charge to 27.2 grains and found a happy medium! The carbon fouling, while not completely gone, is not nearly as bad. And groups continue to be an inch or less from the AR, and are now right at 3/4" from the Savage.

In an aside, I may have made a terrible mistake! Taught the youngest boy how to reload a couple of weeks ago. Now all of my Hornaday 55 grain FMJs, I bought for plinking loads are gone and my powder supply needs replenishing. Which wouldn't so bad but he shot it all up already! :shock:


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Re: Hodgdon CFE?

Postby Tim Anderson » Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:45 pm

[quoteI called Hodgdon and spoke with Tech support about the problem with heavy fouling and was told that this gets better if you run the stuff at near max loads, which is 27.8 grains in the AR action only. and 27.4 in all other .223s.
[quote]

I think you better re-check this as it should be the other way around.. Bolt action can run a higher charge than a AR and same can be said for any single shot rifles like T/C, Browning, win... Reason why I use all bolt actions now....


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Re: Hodgdon CFE?

Postby Cuts Crooked » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:48 am

Uh, I should have been more specific. My AR is 5.56 Wylde chamber, supposedly to run both 5.56 and .223. Have to careful about running 5.56 in guns chambered for .223 because of the differences in the chambers. It's possible to get over pressure situations with some .223 chambers when using 5.56 stuff. Thus different load data for the two, I guess. (doesn't make a lot of sense to me either) Irrespective, running the warmer loads does seem to cut down on the carbon fouling with this powder.

From Wiki:
C.I.P. defines the maximum service and proof test pressures of the .223 Remington cartridge equal to the 5.56 mm NATO, at 430 MPa (62,366 psi). This differs from the SAAMI maximum pressure specification for .223 Remington of 380 MPa (55,114 psi), due to CIP test protocols measuring pressure using a drilled case, rather than an intact case with a conformal piston, along with other differences.[52] NATO uses NATO EPVAT pressure test protocols for their small arms ammunition specifications.

Because of these differences in methodology, the CIP pressure of 430 MPa (62,366 psi) is the same as a SAAMI pressure of 380 MPa (55,114 psi), which is reflected in US Military specifications for 5.56 mm NATO, which call for a mean maximum pressure of 55,000 PSI (when measured using a protocol similar to SAAMI).[53]

These pressures are generated and measured using a chamber cut to 5.56 NATO specifications, including the longer leade. Firing 5.56mm NATO from a chamber with a shorter .223 Remington leade can generate pressures in excess of SAAMI maximums.


All of which is weird considering the Wylde Chamber is a "middle of the road chamber" with a slightly longer leade then .223. I guess it could be thought of as "match chamber"... or a really tight 5.56 :?


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Re: Hodgdon CFE?

Postby Tim Anderson » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:56 pm

Just have to be careful.. A 223 bolt action will get you roughly 200 fps. more vel. vrs. a AR in 223 shooting a 50 gr. bullet and the max load charge will be a little less also .2-.6 depending on powder (less for the AR) Just going by my book here but top vel. in a AR is about 3300 vrs. a rifle 3500 fps... Sierra manual has some good info on it and loads for both..


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Re: Hodgdon CFE?

Postby Coyotehunter » Mon Dec 21, 2015 5:39 pm

I would imagine the gas bleed off at the gas block is the issue.


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