.243 load

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LeviM
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Re: .243 load

Post by LeviM »

LOL

Math and physics go in one ear and right out the other, just like they did in school!

I am just looking for load combinations to try. Dcoy, said it "try it and see if you like it" I am just hear to kill coyotes, not get into science of long range shooting.

Daryl, Thanks for the post, I am very intrested in trying some of your load combinations.

If we want to get into the argument of BC, someone should start a new post, and then argue!
Levi McNally
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Daryl
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Re: .243 load

Post by Daryl »

Amen :roll:
I would rather have a slow hit than a fast miss...
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Dcoy
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Re: .243 load

Post by Dcoy »

Good Levi,try em.I love guys who will give up trajectory inside 300-I know they aren't hurting my beloved fox population any. :wink:
Good hunting!
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coyotelatrans
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Re: .243 load

Post by coyotelatrans »

A bullet doesn't drop as soon as it leaves the barrel it starts on an arch and speed,bullet weight and BC all factor how long that arch last before it passes the line of sight mark. I know we are tlaking abouty shooting coyotes and I like the discussion we are having if needed we can start a new thread on Bullet BC? But depending on various factors some bullets don't have true stablization until past that 300 yard mark and many at 500 yards!

You want a twist rate that matches the bullet you want to use if your looking for the "best" accuracy one can obtain from there rifle, if not use what will print a decent group and move on in life. A new thread for those that want to talk BC rating and longer range coyote shooting. But many live in areas of pressured coyotes and areas where 300-600 yard shots becuase of terrain are done and also the more caalling presure in an area the more of those longer range coyotes I see. And yes you call in a pair even in summer you can stop the female most of the time she is further off than the male, so you have longer shots gives you much better odds at bringing in the more agressive male "most" of the time. So longer rnage shooting will make us all better shots unless you hunting heavy cover then use what brung ya!
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Dcoy
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Re: .243 load

Post by Dcoy »

I agree this is good stuff.I also agree we should take it to a new thread-something I'll do after deer season although based on your yesterdays answer that I read to say you would agree that with reasonable bullets(BC and velocity wise)it means little out to 300 yds,we likely don't disagree about much.
Your starting point here though,that a bullet doesn't immediately drop upon leaving the barrel,is simply wrong.No bullet is exempt from the laws of gravity and every bullet starts dropping instantly upon departure.We tweak it or can create an 'arch'as you put it,but its dropping instantly.
Pilgrim

Re: .243 load

Post by Pilgrim »

Want to say a couple things about this Forum and this Thread: Both are terrific! Re-read the entire thread and don't see anything I haven't appreciated from any of you, even the rubbing. Just want to remind that everyone has something to offer and know that anything I've ever contributed is intended to be useful.

Responding to arc: Every scoped rifle I have projects the bullet in an upward "arc" to overcome the 1.5" difference from bore's center to where the crosshairs meet, which is what coyotelatrans referred to as "line of sight mark". I'm aware that because I zero my rifles at 250 yards the arc is a actually a fraction of an inch greater than +1.5". That does not mean the bullet travels upward on its own or against a resistence force (like gravity- impossible as Dcoy mentioned). Let's agree that the barrel is pointed very slightly upward in relation to the scope's line of sight. I'm not mentioning any of this other than to clarify, which I'm not sure any here actually dispute anyway.

One thing I'll add is if zeroed at 250 yards, virtually any varmint caliber bullet bewtween 20 and 100 grains that leaves the muzzle at over 3000 fps will arrive at a 400yrd target within 1-3" of either side of a 14" drop. The idea to actually zero the rifle at 250 yards helped me overcome a personal hang-up on muzzle velocity to discover that many heavier bullets that start out slower actually travel faster than the lighter speedster after 3-400 yards. Maybe some of you will find that useful. That's all.
Last edited by Pilgrim on Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:50 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Dcoy
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Re: .243 load

Post by Dcoy »

Heading back to a deer stand,neighbors are stirring em up today plus the rut is still rolling,but must add that bullet weight,Bc,velocity,whatever does not change the 'gravity' fact.Drop the heaviest,highest BC bullet you own at the same height and time you drop the lightest,lowest BC bullet you own,and they'll both hit the ground at the same time.
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coyotelatrans
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Re: .243 load

Post by coyotelatrans »

Decoy that is taking something not in motion and the effects of gravity. We aren't relating gravity to a bullet and drop, your relating air resistance on that moving bullet and how fast it drops in a given time frame. The more time in flight the more drop as the bullet slows down air resistance is greater. You can overcome some of that air resistance by having a higher BC bullet.That is how a heavier bullet at long range out performs a lighter bullet at long range in the same caliber. The amount of resistance is less on a higher BC bullet giving it more flight characteristics that make it more stable, it retains more energy and has higher mass bucking the wind better. If I had a 150 grain bullet in 30 caliber one was shaped like a wad cutter and one like an Amax I'll give you 500 fps advantage with the wad cutter shaped bullet which at 300+ yards is going to fly more stable, less drop and better wind deflection numbers?

Your not trying to buck gravity your trying to reduce drag and stablize the projectile as best you can in that given time frame. If you have the same bullet and increase speed it will shoot some flatter, but if you have a lighter bullet versus a heavier bullet same exact shape the heavier will outgain the lighter bullet down range because it is superior in weight and the effects wind resistance has on it.

say you have a bullet .269 you run it at 3,600 fps at 600 yards the drop is 63.2" at a 200 yrd zero now I take that bullet change up to a heavier bullet at a BC of .299 I cut the drop to 57.4" by changing that bullet! Now if I make yet another change and go from a 55 grain to an 80 grain I can run it 100 FPS slower to drop of 56.5" at 600 yards! Gravity being constant it is the air resistance being better that makes this bullet fly flatter at a slower speed.

Ok I ran a 55 grain bullet versus a 70 grain bullet in order to get the same wind deflection numbers for both I would need to run that 55 grain bullet at 4,050 FPS to get the same as a 70 grain bullet at 3,500 fps with a 10MPH wind on both to get you 37.3" of drift at 600 yards! Meaning you have to get it there faster and with less retained energy due to mass differance. More barrel wear and more powder used.To trade off for 15 more grains and a higher BC rating.

Now the last I will run is a 90 grain bullet in a .243 I can run it at 3,000 fps and get the same wind deflection and more energy at that range on the target Than either the 55 or 70 grain bullet!If I move it up by 150 fps I can cut down almost 2" more of wind deflection at 600 yards!
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Dcoy
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Re: .243 load

Post by Dcoy »

I understand all this very well,please don't feel its necessary to review basics,at least for me,what I'm saying is your totally wrong if you think a bullet doesn't begin to drop immediately after leaving the barrel-at any speed.
As to your calcs,lets take them elsewhere,instead of this 243 thread.As I stated,I'll start one next week.The bottom line,which you may not disagree with,is that with a reasonable bullet(factory or reloading there are few nowadays that aren't)plus reasonable velocity,BC differences out to 350 yds are pretty much a phony issue(non-issue)under hunting conditions.
For now,I'll just say the 4050fps you mentioned is not unusual(my 243 reloads for instance)but even that is 'kid stuff'.Run a 50 gr BT at 4300 fps,like my 220 Improved,then we can chat. :D
Again,as others have requested,lets take this elsewhere.
Good hunting.
Pilgrim

Re: .243 load

Post by Pilgrim »

I agree. How about on to the BC thread?, or World of War/ Power Levelling?
Pilgrim

Re: .243 load

Post by Pilgrim »

I don't know Jack.
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coyotelatrans
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Re: .243 load

Post by coyotelatrans »

my last post on this thread Decoy I have stated 300 yards not much differance I'm talking past that range, so if you want to post numbers out to 300 then yes we will have little to talk about! I started a new thread on BC's. Good day
Pilgrim

Re: .243 load

Post by Pilgrim »

A thought:

I have one full box and a partial box of .243 Winchester factory Ballistic Silvertips in 55 grain if anyone is interested. Bought them last year and no longer have a use. The advertised loading is 3910 fps. I'll sell whatever I have for $1 a round or trade(?) if anyone is interested. Can also put dibs on them now and I'll bring to the ND Classic.

Now that it has occurred to me, if OK with the forum rules, maybe we can start a post offering extra ammo, scopes, calls, other misc stuff we no longer use to swap at the Classic. I'll start the thread if OK with the moderators.
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lyonch
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Re: .243 load

Post by lyonch »

Pilgrim wrote:A thought:
Now that it has occurred to me, if OK with the forum rules, maybe we can start a post offering extra ammo, scopes, calls, other misc stuff we no longer use to swap at the Classic. I'll start the thread if OK with the moderators.
I would deffinetly PM jamie before you try to sell anything of the sort or start something like that!!! Who knows maybe he will have a better idea and/or start an area in the online store as a classified section. Its a great idea but i know there is a lot of money spent to keep the site up and running and if he is loosing money because someone else is going to be selling something cheaper than what he can buy if for at dealer cost it hurts his buisness too. It doesn't hurt to run it by him :D
Chris Lyon


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LeviM
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Re: .243 load

Post by LeviM »

I agree talk to Jamie first, this is his baby, and any new ideas should be cleared first!
Levi McNally
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