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.204 vs .223 vs .22-250

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Re: .204 vs .223 vs .22-250

Postby Pilgrim » Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:54 am

Wiz,

I don't think Tim is referring to 'splash' effects.

Likely referring to the same things I've seen so far where the exit holes can be large enough to hold a cantelope. There's a lot of energy and rotation delivered in a 204! The jacket is so light and traveling and spinning so fast that they come apart like a bomb- Outward, whereas any slower, heavier frag bullet will come apart moreso toward the direction of travel. Visualize bullet impact as a cone--- small one end, expanding/larger on the other. The more violent the explosion, the broader the other end of the cone.

Tim's point about the .17 history is as I hope to see it work out for the 204- The 17 and 204 are the most in common; fast and violent. I owned two 17 rems that I didn't shoot much but aware that Berger answered with the better hunting bullets. I'm interested in a 204 bullet design based on high BC X kill fast X fur- maybe just a 39 Blitzking with a heavier jacket or base. Even a non-frag that passes thru leaving 2 small holes (?) Maybe there's room for bullets in the low 40-43 grain range intended for a 1/11" twist(?) Remember that the 204 is an infant in terms of history. Just some thoughts.
Last edited by Pilgrim on Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:17 am, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: .204 vs .223 vs .22-250

Postby wizbang » Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:01 am

Good to know. I guess I'd heard of the 204 being overkill, but I was suprised to hear of it splashing. My experience has been that it has a hell of alot of power when it hits. In the 'general discussion' area (topic "204 rifle") I was suprised to read some discussion of how it might not be enough gun. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

I think Tim mentioned in that thread that he noticed it breaking up too soon-- was curious if he had pics of that.


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Re: .204 vs .223 vs .22-250

Postby Pilgrim » Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:28 am

Wiz,

If there's ever a bullet that's gonna splash it's the thin-jacketed 204 bullet that's tripping at 4200+fps MV. Once you get over 200 yards it's less likely but...

Splash can occur with many of the faster loadings, including big game with big bones and tough skin. My rifles are the "faster" calibers and I must be careful when presented with opps on deer, elk... at close range (under 100 yards or so). Many big game bullets can travel & spin fast enough to blow up/ stop on the hide or explode and trash the meat. I've shot a couple elk where the first bullet busted up and stopped in the hide- only penetrated 2" or less.


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Re: .204 vs .223 vs .22-250

Postby Tim Anderson » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:04 am

When i first got my comp. and joined a few sites i found that it can make it easier to explain youre self if you have pic's and some times you are required to have some sort of proof and pic's don't lie so i take pic's of almost everything i do..LOL

Here are some 204 splashes on coyotes, distances shot where anywhere from 50 yds out to about 175 yds.
Image

Image
Image
Image

Damage caused by a 243 win.

Image

Damage caused by a 17 cal..
Image


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Re: .204 vs .223 vs .22-250

Postby wizbang » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:54 am

Wow. Thanks, Tim. Thanks for taking the time to post them. Its awesome how you guys are so patient with newbies like me. :D


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Re: .204 vs .223 vs .22-250

Postby Pilgrim » Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:34 pm

As the Apostle Peter tells us, "...with gentleness and respect, ..."
Last edited by Pilgrim on Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: .204 vs .223 vs .22-250

Postby bucksnbears » Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:11 pm

"WOW" thats some serious damage. great pic's
the more food you have in your mouth at one time, the better you can taste it!!!
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Re: .204 vs .223 vs .22-250

Postby rhino » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:08 am

what a wealth of information. Thanks. Well maybe I will just buy a .204 and .22-250 and just have both. :lol: already have the .223.


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Re: .204 vs .223 vs .22-250

Postby Coyotehunter » Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:12 pm

Pilgrim wrote:Wiz,

I don't think Tim is referring to 'splash' effects.

Likely referring to the same things I've seen so far where the exit holes can be large enough to hold a cantelope. There's a lot of energy and rotation delivered in a 204! The jacket is so light and traveling and spinning so fast that they come apart like a bomb- Outward, whereas any slower, heavier frag bullet will come apart moreso toward the direction of travel. Visualize bullet impact as a cone--- small one end, expanding/larger on the other. The more violent the explosion, the broader the other end of the cone.

Tim's point about the .17 history is as I hope to see it work out for the 204- The 17 and 204 are the most in common; fast and violent. I owned two 17 rems that I didn't shoot much but aware that Berger answered with the better hunting bullets. I'm interested in a 204 bullet design based on high BC X kill fast X fur- maybe just a 39 Blitzking with a heavier jacket or base. Even a non-frag that passes thru leaving 2 small holes (?) Maybe there's room for bullets in the low 40-43 grain range intended for a 1/11" twist(?) Remember that the 204 is an infant in terms of history. Just some thoughts.


good post

I would agree that a better bullet selection for the coyote is needed in the .204
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Re: .204 vs .223 vs .22-250

Postby Coyotehunter » Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:13 pm

Tim Anderson wrote:When i first got my comp. and joined a few sites i found that it can make it easier to explain youre self if you have pic's and some times you are required to have some sort of proof and pic's don't lie so i take pic's of almost everything i do..LOL

Here are some 204 splashes on coyotes, distances shot where anywhere from 50 yds out to about 175 yds.



great post Tim
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Re: .204 vs .223 vs .22-250

Postby CrittrCallr » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:41 am

rhino wrote:what a wealth of information. Thanks. Well maybe I will just buy a .204 and .22-250 and just have both. :lol: already have the .223.


Sounds like a reasonable solution to me. :D


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Re: .204 vs .223 vs .22-250

Postby shooter93 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:16 pm

i dont know about 350 yards plus with my 204 but ihave not had probs with exit holes, but i do reload my own i load reload 15 with 29.9 grains and using the 40 grain vmx, alot dont exit just blow in side, but most my shots are 100 yards or closer, closer the better, i dont use the 32 grain had probs with blow ups on impact, last coyote this last weekend was 40 yards enter and exit same size.


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Re: .204 vs .223 vs .22-250

Postby rob bates » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:36 pm

I don't know of how many have used bullets by James Calhoon or not but I have used them in my 22-250 for around ten years or so. The .22 cal 52grn double hollow point. Very explosive on a pd and rarely an exit on yotes. I recently got a .204 and am in the "find the right load stage". The barrel is a 1:12 so I am starting out with the James Calhoon 33grn DHP with 27.5 grns of benchmark. I haven't had it long enough to call any yotes with, so I will have to wait and see how the performance is. If they don't work out I will try the 39grn he offers. Give them a try, his web site is http://www.jamescalhoon.com


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Re: .204 vs .223 vs .22-250

Postby Dcoy » Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:32 am

Don't forget the 'brass' issue.I see many screaming about the cost and near total absense of 204 brass on various gun sites nowadays.Might be the worlds greatest gun salesman(Obama)causing it and maybe its just temporary but....????


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Re: .204 vs .223 vs .22-250

Postby Live Oak » Mon May 04, 2009 6:29 am

rhino wrote:I am not a gun expert when it comes to ballistics so that is why I am asking all of you guys. I am not trying to find the best coyote gun either. My question is between the 3 calibers I have listed what is the effective max range on a coyote. I am thinking about buying another gun in the future but not sure if I stick with another .223 or go a different direction. I love my .223 but just doing research on other calibers. I do not take long shots nor do I practice long shots. But I am going to start because I have let too many go because I don't want to take long shots.

Thanks


I am a noobie here and from Tennessee, and not a gun expert either. Hello all. I am also a noobie to coyote hunting compared to folks here. I recently went through this same decision process. I have shot 2 coyotes with a .223 Ruger Mini 14 Ranch Rifle. It is an OK multi-purpose gun but not very accurate. (read about one minute of barn door or MOBD) In my area I am finding that I am forced to make shots of 300 yards and up due to the coyotes having been "educated" and very fearful of humans.

I considered a semi-auto but I want to reload. Picking up spent shell casings scattered all over has been a negative experience with the Ruger and M1 Garand as they sling shells all over the place.

The .204 just did not seem to be enough bullet and I have seem more than a few folks selling them to move up in caliber.

What I finally settled on was a Savage Model 12 Low Profile in 22-250 with a 1 in 9 inch twist barrel. I have been taking my time assembling the rifle and have not fired it yet. I have mounted the scope and lapped and aligned the scope rings. I went with a 6.5x20 x52mm scope with a 30mm tube. I did a VERY light barrel cleaning and lapping with JB bore paste to clean out the test fire and production debry and polish up the bore. I mounted a Harris Series S Hinged Base 13.5-27 bipod. I mounted a TIS (Tactical Intervention Specialites) M24 Quick Cuff Rifle Sling to the Harris bipod. The scope got Butler Creek Multi-flex scope flip up scope covers. The entire rig weighs in at 17 pounds. Probably considered way to heavy by most but in my case due to medical issues and recoil should work well.



The weather here has either been windy or raining for a few weeks and I have been waiting for a nice dry calm day to break in the barrel. I got a great deal on some Privi 22-250 55 grain SP ammo and will use it to break in the barrel as well as for initial shooting use to build up some reloading brass. In my area, the most popular round seems to be the Hornady in one caliber on another using the 55 grain Vmax. Some of the longer distance shooters seem to prefer the Hornady 75 grain and 80 grain Amax. I have purchased a good supply of each as well as the Barnes 50 grain Varmint Grenade bullets for reloading later. I have a good deal of experience reloading shotgun shells but zero with rifle ammo. This will be a learning process for me. Any suggestions, comments, or experiences would be valuable for me.

I will be sure to post my experiences and impressions of this rifle once I get the barrel broken in and get some experience with it.

Thanks and you guys have a real nice website here.


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