Custom Barrels

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lyonch
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Custom Barrels

Post by lyonch »

I have been researching barrels for a while now and noticed on shilen's website that there is an option for "ratchet 4 groove rifling" i am just curious if anyone has tested or knows anything about the ratchet 4 groove rifling versus a standard 6 groove. Everyone i talked to said they are out 3 months on there barrels so it looks like this coming spring is when i will be able to get it and play all summer with it.
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Tim Anderson
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Re: Custom Barrels

Post by Tim Anderson »

From what i gather the 4 groove has less fouling issues, easier to clean and you may see a slight increase in vel. You have alot less metal in contact with the bullet...
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lyonch
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Re: Custom Barrels

Post by lyonch »

after i have researched it a little farther that seems to be the response from most people. Another aspect that was brought up by a few people was that it causes less bullet deformation, thus resulting in a slightly higher BC rating which results in slightly less wind deflection. I dont want people to turn this into a BC topic either. It was simply something that was mentioned by a few people during my research as a pro to having a ratchet groove barrel. Another pro for the ratchet rifling was that you get about 300-400 more rounds out of the life of the barrel. A couple of cons that i read were that it is hard to machine and the cost of the barrel. Thanks for your input TA :D
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Daryl
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Re: Custom Barrels

Post by Daryl »

I am no expert by any means on rifle barrels. I have a friend that is a eccellent gunsmith and used alot of Leija and shilen barrels and he was also the F class champion a couple years back but anyways I am having a .243 AI built and he switched to Brux Barrel company and has had great results. They shoot just as good if not better in some situations than Leija and Shilen and they are cheaper and ship most of the time in 2 weeks. Just something to check out. My barrel will be the 4 groove and it is for reasons listed above ( less fouling, less friction, more velocity). Just alittle input.
I would rather have a slow hit than a fast miss...
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Re: Custom Barrels

Post by Pilgrim »

You're building a 22 cal, right?

If so, I'd go 3 groove. The other thing to consider is ditch the Shilen + gunsmith idea and go with a PacNor or a Douglas where you ship the action and it comes home ready to go with the new barrel chambered, headspaced, hand lapped and crowned for less than $400 including shipping. You'll save a lot of dough and should shoot like a Lilja. Just a thought.
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lyonch
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Re: Custom Barrels

Post by lyonch »

I currently am shooting a remington model 700 VLS .22-250 that has a custom thumbhole gunstock and soon to be jewell trigger and the only thing i have left to change is the barrel. A quetion that i have is once a barrel is manufactured to a certain tolerance, how is someone who is going to be shooting off of a bi pod going to tell the difference between manufacture's? There are a ton of barrel manufacturing companies out there and they all seem to have the same tolerances. The barrel that i have had in mind for a while is shilen's 1:14 twist select match grade stainless barrel.
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Tim Anderson
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Re: Custom Barrels

Post by Tim Anderson »

When i select a rifle barrel manufacture i look at there track record as far as shooting matches go and i also look at what cal. their barrels shoot the best.. Some barrel makers make a super 30 cal. barrel but just so so on .224 or 17 cal. Lilja for example was very good with the 22 l.r. barrels and then exspanded up into the 17 and .224 cal. and other cal. to keep them busy..
If i was going to have a rifle built and it was larger than a 17 cal. then i would just draw a name from a hat they are all really good... The same canbe said for gunsmiths most all of them will build you a rifle, but what i look for is a smith that specializes in a certain action, he will have the proper tooling and do the best job...
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bucksnbears
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Re: Custom Barrels

Post by bucksnbears »

lyonch, just wondering why you are thinking a 1-14 twist?? you must have a pet load with a lighter bullet??. i'd personally go 1-10 1-12 max. just a thought
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lyonch
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Re: Custom Barrels

Post by lyonch »

BnB i plan on shooting 52 grain to 55 grain bullets. Thats why i was going to stick with a 1:14. Once this gun is finished and completed it is a coyote gun only, unless i see a fox of course :wink: I can see your understanding with a 1:12 or a 1:10 for versatility and ablility to shoot heavier bullets though. The more research i have done on the internet about ratchet rifling is that there is a lot of forgivness there. Some guys were claiming that with a 1:14 they were able to stabalize bullets up to 65 grains :shock: If you guys have other reasons on why i should go with a different twist let me know! After reaserching barrel twist rates and what not to me the best application for what i am going to use it for the 1:14 fit the bill. By all means i will take any hints or insight into consideration since most of you know a lot more about rifles than i do :oops:
Chris Lyon


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My heart belongs to my family,
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Re: Custom Barrels

Post by Pilgrim »

Chris

You're doing a good job of asking the right questions.

I agree with Tim for the same reason, they're all premium barrels.

Also agree with BnB's 1/12" suggestion. You're really isolating your rig to niche fodder by going to 1/14" when a 1/12" is equally ideal for shooting a 52 or 55 grain thru a 22-250. I probably would've considered the same before discovering it ain't all about the fastest or lightest bullet. Every caliber has a range of bullet weights and the light end represents the least efficient (generally). Anyway, I'd rather build a rifle around high BC and stability and a 52 or 55 will be just as comfy spinning down a 1/12" while your range of options will be much broader.

I know a gunsmith that I use on occassion that has built NRA national championship winning rifles. Even though he knows what he'd doing, he'll remind that he might complete fit less barrels a year than what the people at Douglas and PacNor do in a couple days.

One nugget is to read Dan Lilja on this stuff. Pretty straightforward and he does make the best barrels whether my feeble understanding of all this thinks so or not.
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jaybic
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Re: Custom Barrels

Post by jaybic »

Just another 2 cents but if you look at the equipment lists for winning benchrest competitors you will generally see maybe 3 barrel brands which are Krieger, Bartlein and Brux. Most of those are Krieger and Bartlein. There maybe a scattered Shilen or Pac Nor but for the most part, the most accurate shooters in the world are shooting Krieger(bad part...long wait times...3-4 months) or Bartleins. I had my Rem 22-250 rebarreled to a .308 with a Krieger barrel and I was staggered at the results. Them things shoot! I had to wait a bit for the barrel but I cannot wait to burn the barrels off the rest of my rifles.
ALL of them will be replaced with Kriegers.

I do have to say that the Douglas barrel on my AR has really done well also and if your looking to spend a little less, they are an excellent choice also but you dont seen any of them winning any NBRSA or IBS matches.

I also agree with Tim and Pilgrim on the twist. 1:12 will do everything that a 1:14 will but will also be just a bit more flexible in what bullet weights you can throw down it.

Anyway, just another country heard from. :D

Good luck,

Jaybic
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xdeano
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Re: Custom Barrels

Post by xdeano »

Chris,

Have you done any research on odd numbered lands? I was told by some reps that the 3 lands and 5 lands are better for less fowling than the lands that are opposite from one another, vs offset.

This only makes sense because of the amount of pressure created on a bullet as it exits. With lands opposite each other you going to have more tension on the bullet, which will cause more friction, leading to higher pressure, heat, barrel wear. Where as the offset lands will give you a bit less tension. Just a couple of sense.

I'm shooting a bartlein 5R barrel right now, and it is incredable at how few patches I have to use to clean the barrel. It's a lot less hastle, and I don't have to clean as often. The 5R barrels have a canted land also which instead of a flat top land it is more like a stop sign cut in half, so the square edges are cut down, creating less fowling and less frictional forces equating to less wear, less pressure, less temp... It's a good barrel. It's basically another variation of the shilen ratchet. I finally picked a load for it about a week ago that was printing .8" @ 300yds, and I know it'll shoot better than that, I just have to play some more.

As far as the twist, I'd go with the 12". All I shoot through my 250 is 50g noslers and it pin holes them with the 12" twist. You won't gain anything with a slower twist. Most people go the other way, they pick the faster twist and use longer more slippery bullets. I'd stick with the 12"

Barrels are up to you, there are so many manufactures out there that make a quality barrel. Some that I was looking at when I was looking at barrels, were Brux, Bartlein, PacNor, Shilen, lilja among others. Talk with some people that do the work. If you want a good smith i'll give you the name and number of my smith and he'll set you straight. he won't push anything on you and he's the best smith that i've ever had any work done. pm me if you want a number

later,
Deano
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Sidewinder
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Re: Custom Barrels

Post by Sidewinder »

I am having a Benchmark barrel made for me now for a 20 VarTarg. They have won some shooting contests. I will let you know what it is like when I get it all put together. They will thread it for a Savage so I can install it myself.
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Tim Anderson
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Re: Custom Barrels

Post by Tim Anderson »

Question: How are you guys cleaning youre barrels? Are any of you useing a brush in conjuction with running patches down the barrel???

If youre not useing a brush and youre barrel comes out clean after a dozen patches or so take and do this test. Leave solvent in the barrel after you think you got it cleaned up good with the patches and solvent and run a brush through the barrel a few times and then come back with a clean patch and tell me what you see...
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lyonch
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Re: Custom Barrels

Post by lyonch »

I see a dirty patch like i expected.
Chris Lyon


My mind belongs to my work,
My heart belongs to my family,
BUT MY SOUL BELONGS TO THE COYOTES!!!
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