ear protection

[Dcoy]

Flinching?Using ear protection?If not using ear protection I suspect you'll soon be flinching,like it or not.Tough guy or not.I've never used it and now am reaping the results-loss of hearing,flinching.
I'm tired of plug ins that keep you from hearing much,the 'muffs'that allow you to hear and yet protect from loud noises but are cumbersome as hell to wear and use,or other devices that you can plug in 'when needed' but that you often don't have time to do.
So I am seriously looking at the 'game ear' devices that wrap around your ears.The most well known I suspect are the 'Walkers'but I see others advertised for much less $$.Any personal comments and experiences very much appreciated.Stay on?Easy to use?Operating costs like batteries?Reliable?Any info welcomed.
Thanks and good hunting!

[lyonch]

Sorry Dcoy i have nothing!! I haven't ever researched them much either. I do agree with you though that part of flinching is teh sound of the gun going off!! I know i flinch and i have been trying so hard not to and am practicing constantly to stop!! Every coyote i shoot i see fall on the scope. Every coyote i miss i dont ever see where the bullet went or what the hell exactly happened and its all do to me flinching. If you end up getting a pair let me know how they work out!!

[Fallguy]

I always wear shooting muffs when I am practicing, but never when hunting. I figure if I practice like that when I shoot in the field I won't even be thinking of the noise.

Plus my hearing sucks (wife says I'm deaf) so I need to protect them the best I can.

[bucksnbears]

good topic. i've been a flincher for years myself. i started using muffs a few years ago even when shooting a .22lr. my shooting has improved dramatticlly.and my hearing has been damaged as well.

[wizbang]

I agree its a good topic too. As a psychologist/coyote hunter, I can say that there are alot of reasons we flinch and that I think everyone is right on to think that muffs might help-- though it doesn't take a doctorate to know that

The first thing is that we're hard-wired to flinch. Our physiology makes it nearly impossible for us to not flinch when presented with a loud bang-- even if we try our hardest not to. Our flinch response works alot faster than our ability to moderate (stop) flinching. The nerves between the ear and the flinch-activating area of the brain work like 900 miles/hr-- even if you try to anticipate the bang and not flinch-- too late. Not sure if its fast enough to effect that shot but the brain will surely remember on the next one. Over the course of our evolution, it has just proven too adaptive for humans to evolve the flinch response. Good luck fighting millions of years of flinch-heightening evolution without muffs!

A second reason is that we're often conditioned to flinch. The bang of a gun is unpleasant to the brain and, once the unpleasant bang is associated with the trigger pull, our wiring changes to make the flinch response easier. Also-- if you've ever been scoped, the flinch response is also drastically higher since the flinch is adaptive to the brain.

Fallguy is 1/2 right to say that practicing with muffs will help him in the field. It will reduce the conditioned (practiced) flinch response but the brain is still hard-wired to jump with the bang-- somewhat.

Muffs can help against our hard-wired flinch response to the noise but not if you've been conditioned to flinch because of being scoped, etc. Just like a dog that has been kicked in the past will shutter when their fear is triggered-- even if they're not actually going to get kicked. Personally, I was once scoped by a 12 gauge with an old weaver 4x with a metal eyepiece-- not pleasant and I now flinch even without the bang.

-Dr. wizbang.

[Tim Anderson]

I have about 50% of my hearing left, i use ear plugs at work but on some machines it was'nt enough so now i have some hearing loss.. I've tried a few of the hearing devices that are sold at a sporting goods store they do help youre hearing if you want to hear a others talk around you but when used for hunting they also pick up the wind that blows around you.. One of the sets i have has a freq. adjustment on it and maybe the sound of the wind canbe reduced not sure.. I have another one that clips on to youre hat or shirt pocket, same problem with the wind.. The high dollar game ear maybe a better choice if theres are set up to not pick-up the sound of the wind blowing..

Fliching is a conditioned response from the human body, it is easier to get the flinches than it is to get rid of it.. Big cal.s can cause this from the 22-250 and up.. I shot a friends Rem. auto in 30-06 a few years back and got the flinches from doing so, it took alot of shooting and a year to finally get rid of it. It canbe controled just takes alot of concentration when squeezeing the trigger and after awhile its gone..

[xdeano]

there is always a suppressor/silencer for your weapon also. it'll help with doubles, triples, quads and pents. I've heard second hand that a WS specialist in Montana took 5 in one stand with the use of a suppressor under the optimum circumstance.

xdeano

[Tim Anderson]

suppressor/silencer are not legal here for hunting.. They still make a noise and if used in a larger cal. like a 22-250 . With a suppressor to be effective you would have to use subsonic ammo and call them in close...

[xdeano]

Tim,

Yep, pretty much MN sucks. You can't do anything in that state, it's starting to be a clone of California called Minnifornia. I really have nothing against MN, just some of the gun laws.

At this time, the following states allow private ownership of silencers: AL, AR, AK, AZ, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KY, LA, ME, MD, MS, MT, ND, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WI, and WY.

SD can use them.

A suppressed 308 full power ammo sounds like a 22LR. A suppressor disguises the direction of the shot. You're right if you us subsonic ammo you'll have to call them in close, it will sound like a pellet gun though.

Go with the Walkers, I've heard a lot of good reviews on them. I know a few people that use them for bow hunting as well as coyote calling. The one guy that I have spoken to about them said that the first time he went calling with them, he heard what sounded like a herd of horses coming over the hill, come to find out it was a pair of coyotes. They picked up the sound before they came over the top. That's pretty cool in my book. I've never used them, but i'm sure you'll be happy with them. Another friend just uses 1 and says it works well also.

xdeano

[jaybic]

I dont know if this helps but here goes.

I have significant hearing loss after too many years in a gigging heavy metal band, 4years in the USMC using various things that go "BANG", and much hunting and shooting with no ear plugs. I have tried the Walker game ears and here is my two cents:

First things first. None of them of any brand name will ever sound like your original hearing. They take some getting used to for sure and I have tried 3 different types.

The ITC digital ones(little ones that fit right in your ear canal) sound excellent(as long as there is no wind) but are an absolute pain in the keister. In my experience they were spendy(400.00 each), fragile( I sent mine back for repairs twice in the 2 years that I had them-not cheap...100.00 a pop), and the little hole plugs up with ear wax all the time(no matter how many Q-tips you use). They are super small and if your not careful, VERY easy to lose or have fall out(especially when drawing a bow and your anchor point is behind your ear). Volume is pretty much impossible to adjust unless you take them out, turn it up and put them back in.

If you have them in and then get in a car and drive, its like sticking your head out the window of an airplane in flight so you have to pull them out and then put them back in at the next stand(time and ass-ache factor)which can be tricky with cold fingers. Guanranteed, this will drive you nuts.

The behind the ear ones(tried these before I got the above ones-Walkers also) sound quality was mediocre but not nearly as tricky to handle but most of the drawbacks are the same. Much cheaper tho.

Lastly, I took the ITC ones back and got the QUAD muffs(not the digital ones) from Walker and I like these best. About 200.oo a pair and the sound quality is on par with the ITCs. Much less likely to be lost(as compared to a 400.00 acorn sized in-ear with a tendancy to fall out if you move too much) and easy to take off and throw on the dash. Fully able to adjust volume and tone while wearing them which is awesome. They cut down on shot noise but allow you to hear birds chirp a long ways off and if yo have them turned up like me and the first time your sitting in a deer stand and a squirrel jumps off the tree onto frost covered leaves right behind you it'll scare the hell outta ya. You will thing a 1400lb deer just walked up behind you. Its kinda funny after your heart settles back down.

Anyway, the only bad thing I have found about all of them is you can hear things but cant tell which direction its coming from. You will hear a coyote howl and face that way, take them off and realize he is off to your right or left quite a bit. Other that that, which is just my own experience with them, good luck choosing but it helps tons in the flinch department and you can see it in your group sizes, for real

Hope this helps and sorry for the legth but if I had known all this I could have saved myself alot of money and bought the Quadmuffs the first time.

Jaybic

[Dcoy]

Jaybic,
Thanks very much thats exactly what I needed-and suspected.I have the
'muffs'(in the truck and can't recall the brand but they hype USMC use)and they are a nuisance for me to wear so I often just forget them.If I'm pure calling and not on a long walk I throw them in a pack and just put them on at the calling site.When hiking though,I can't stand wearing them and if I just leave them around my neck they are annoying as hell.Nevertheless I'll now keep them and just get used to dealing with them.Thanks again.
Semper Fi!

[lyonch]

Great post jaybic!!! You saved some guys a lot of money and headaches with that post

[jaybic]

Semper Fi Dcoy.

[LeviM]

I can really see personally the importance of using ear protection when practice shooting. When hunting coyotes, I never honestly hear the shot, maybe because I am not thinking about the noise, and I am focusing on the coyote. Lots of good info

[Dcoy]

Levi,
I hear ya-or at least used to be able to.
I thought(sometimes still pretend)that when actually hunting its not a problem either.In my case,I suspect yours as well,it was/is a problem.I won't repeat here our discussion of this in the Top Dog forum and my comments there about the bodies 'self protect' system cause Wizbang pretty much covered it here as well.IMO you are heading for/contributing to the 'flinch'problem even though it may not feel or appear like it.Your body is reacting to the loud noise in hunting situations as well so.....your mind/body is anticipating the noise and reacting to it=flinch.Likely sooner than later.
As the saying goes,'be careful out there'.