questions for 308 shooters

[leadbiscuit]

I have an itch to put together a "just in case" bolt gun. My AR needs an long range big brother. Here's what I've decided on so far. I'll probably breakdown my 8 twist 6br for the action. It's a sa 700 with a PTG bolt. Bottom metal will most likely be Surgeon with the ai mags. Barrel will be a remmy varmint contour at the heaviest, most likely cut at 22 to 24 inches. I'm undecided on the stock, but I won't use anything with a flat fore end. I'll have to sell some parts and scopes I'm not using to finance this little adventure. The idea behind this is to put everything other than this and the bench gun away for awhile, maybe a long while, and try to stretch my long range skills with a single gun. No distractions. Is the 308 the round for the job? or maybe a 260? The gun is going to have to serve for everything from small varmints to targets. I'd like to hear from the guys who are shooting 308's. What twist are you running? Bullets? Powders? Basically any relevant info on the 308 you can offer would be welcome.

Thanks in advance
leadbiscuit

[xdeano]

I shoot 308 exclusively now for all of my hunting, target etc. I'm using a 22" Bartlein barrel in MTU contour. McMillan A3 stock. Shooting 155g Lapua, Lapua brass, Fed 210M primers at 2825fps. This does the job for coyotes and deer for me. It has a 1-11.25 twist. It's a 5 grove canted land (ie 5R). It's a cut rifling, so you'll do less cleaning.

If i were to do it over, i'd get either an Mcmillan A3-5 stock or a Manners stock. A 260R in 1-8" twist at 24" or a 6.5 Super LR. The barrel is good but i'd step it down a couple of sizes to shave off some weight, in another Bartlein or maybe a Brux. As far as a stock i'd definitely take a good look at the manners, they're nice stocks and you can get them with the camo molded right into the stock.

The 260 will do everything the 308 will do, only better.

But for now, i'll keep shooting my 308, the one thing a 308 has on the 260 is barrel life.

xdeano

edit: I'm running one of these. http://www.gaprecision.net/ga-precision ... sader.html only change is the stock. I also didn't go with a drop mag system, they flop around and make noise and i like it quiet. I stuck with the drop floor plate.

[barebackjack]

Ditto on xdeanos load. I shot the same thing only a you know what hair faster. Cant go wrong with those scenars over varget.

Ive gone to a .260 now. That little wind bucking edge really tempted me. Havent done anything serious at all with it yet though.

One thing I would think about, is perhaps look into going with the AW mags (and bottom metal that accepts them) over the AI. I have Badger BM and AI mags for the .260. They're nice, but theres a few small advantages to the AW. The AW is a bit longer inside, allowing you to go with a longer COAL and chase lands longer, and the AW is a two position feed, which means you can top off the mag through the open bolt without dropping the mag. Not the end of the world, but something handy over the AI mags which need to be dropped to top off. I know if I was to do it again, id go AW.

Like xdeano said, .308 has the edge in barrel life, and ive heard the .260 can be a bit finicky to load for. .308 just seems to like about anything you feed it. At least mine always have.

[leadbiscuit]

Thanks for the answers guys. The extra barrel life of the 308 is tempting. I don't know yet. BBJ, who's making AW bottom metal?

thanks

[barebackjack]

I could have swore Surgeon made bottom metal for an AW mag, but I dont see it on their website. hmmm

I just re-read your original post. I need to slow down some. An AW may not be a great choice going into a 700 action, it will require mil work to your receiver to accommodate the dual feed rails. Probably not a very cost effective option considering the few advantages of that magazine. It can be done, but the AI will be easier.

[xdeano]

I will say that with a 24" barrel you can push the 155g Lapua's to 2900-2950 pretty easy. It's probably the best long range bullet option out there for the 308 unless you jump to the 208+grain bullet. I'm using Varget as well.

The other reason why i didn't go with a drop mag was just stated by BBJ, you have to drop the mag to top them off. They also stick out which can get hung up on clothing and brush. But the rattle sound really gave it up. I may only have 4 in the mag and 1 in the hole, but i can add when i want to.

But that being said the 260 does have a ballistic advantage over the 308. So it's up to you weather you want to shoot for 7-10K or for 2-3K in the 260. But to get that 3K you'll have to slow your bullet down and use a slower powder, so then ballistically you're behind again.

xdeano

[barebackjack]

Ill add this on barrel life for the .260. Its slightly better than a .243 and the .243 is by no means known as a 'barrel burner'.

Most reports ive heard of the .260 are around 3000 rounds before accuracy noticeably suffers. Most hard core comp. shooters are bumping barrels back at 2500, putting a new one on order, knocking out another 500 rounds or so and than swapping em out.

Cant go wrong with either of them. Fur damage is going to be similar for both, .260 has a bit of a ballistic edge, .308 is easier to load for (also theres a plethora of load data out there for it) and components are easy to come by, .260 components can be tough to come by at some times (like brass). Lapua is making .260 brass now, which is what tipped the odds on it for me. I debated for months over the .260, 6.5x47L, and the 6.5 CM.

Flip a coin, you'll be happy with either.

[leadbiscuit]

I think I'm gonna go 308. I'm going to shoot the hell out of this thing. Replacing barrels isn't that big of a deal for me, but it is nice to be able to get to know a barrel and keep it around for a while. Load work is expensive and time consuming. I don't think the ballistic disadvantage of the 308 should stop me. The whole point of this is to learn how to shoot better. Harder might be better for me. Thanks for the help deciding guys.
Xdeano, where does the rattle in the mags come from? is it the mag bouncing around inside the well? Is there any way to cure it?

Thanks to the both of you
leadbiscuit

[barebackjack]

lead,

The AI mags fit very tight in my Badger BM. Im sure they will in the Surgeon too, they're well known for making quality components. I have to physically grab the mag and wiggle it to get it to make noise, bouncing/walking they are very quiet, much tighter tolerance than say an AR mag or any other factory detachable ive seen (which also makes them a bit "harder" to put in the mag well).

Whatever you do, dont buy the cheap "knockoff" mags that copy the AI, spend the extra $10 and get real Accuracy International brand.

[leadbiscuit]

10-4 on the mags. Do you guys know of a 30 cal bullet with a decent bc that offers explosive expansion? I need to be somewhat mindful of richochets.

thanks,
leadbiscuit

[xdeano]

Leadbiscuit,
Yeah, the mag rattling is just from moving it side to side with your fingers. I've seen BBJ's set up and it seems nice and tight. So things have come a little ways since i ordered my rifle.

Good question on the fragmenting bullets, just about any 308 bullet that you use, even like a 110g Vmax is going to have enough ass left in it to keep on going unless you're shooting head on shots. But with that bullet the bc isn't much more that a 22 cal. Just grab some high bc bullets, like the 155g Lapua, 155g sierra palma match, and watch your surroundings, let the bullet do the rest.

I think you may be going in the right direction, but after you've shot a few thousand rounds you'll be wishing that you would have picked the 260. Don't get me wrong, i still like my 308, i just wish i had a little more velocity is all.

xdeano

[xdeano]

leadbiscuit,

If you can machine you're own barrels, do one of each man. I wish i had the tools to spin my own stuff, i'd be making all kinds of barrels. Another round that runs a bit more efficient than the 260 would be the one i mentioned in my first thread above, the 6.5SLR. They're talking 3500+ rounds out of a barrel. Just another option.

now that i know you can cut your own, i'd do the 260, without a blink of an eye.

xdeano

[leadbiscuit]

Xdeano

You're not making this easy on me man. I thought I had my mind made up and here you go talking sense. I'll give the 260 another look. I'd gladly go with something a bit more uncommon, but I'd like to keep a fair amount of ammo on hand for the gun. You would like to switch to a 260 and BBJ already has one. That should be telling me something.

thanks again,
leadbiscuit

[xdeano]

Yeah, it should tell you that the 6.5's are the new wave of new toys. I'd rather have the 6.5SLR over the 260R though. either round will do what you want it to. The 260 has less brass prep, the SLR has some prep. Lapua is coming out with 260 brass, Lapua already has 308 brass.

I'd say flip a coin.

xdeano

[leadbiscuit]

Been a while since I read up on the SLR's. Just a 243 with the shoulder pushed back and changed to something like 30 deg. isn't it? I would think a 6.5-6xc would be a neat round as well.

leadbiscuit