Minnesota...

[Dcoy]

Good stuff Chris.I think informing hunters as much as possible could help keep them in your corner.Many hunters are upset by this and while not opposed to trapping at all,split with trappers on this issue-myself included.I recently attended a Game,Fish,Parks meeting where the issue seemed to split 2 groups that normally are united.Here's the type of blip that comes up:

http://outdoornebraska.ne.gov/hunting/g ... accoon.asp
http://www.captaindaves.com/buckshot/220.htm

I hope both groups can sort this out to the benefit of all.

[cb186]

I know only what I have read here on the forum, about trapping. That said, If my dog were to have got it's head caught in in a 220, I wouldn't now hope to remove it or to turn it 90 degrees to relieve pressure. Sice this topic has come up in the last month or two, I have some more insight now.

I can see both sides of the issue, so here is my take:

I have some issue with trapping styles that can kill an animal as opposed to just catching it(I'd still be pissed if my dog was injured from a leg hold trap), thusly eliminating any recourse. To me, this is a bit like opening fire on movement in the bushes when out hunting, or fishing with dynamite. I understand that a good trapper can minimize non-targeted catches, but I'm assuming it happens some times. Add into that the less skilled trapper setting these on public land, and it could be a nightmare.

I think that if there were a way to mark traps so that a hunter could spot them, at minimum, or post at accesses to land that there are traps(in particular, body gripping and snares) that there are traps set in the area, the fallout would be less. I know that theft is an issue in this day and age, so trappers wouldn't want to have to mark sets, because it would be easy for someone to find and steal them, so I'm sure that wouldn't fly. To take it a step farther, if trappers wanted to really be proactive, while posting that there are traps in the area, they could include instructions on how to remove said traps.

All of this is for public land, as hopefully a landowner would mention that there is trapping going on on his land when someone asks permission to bird hunt, but I doubt that would even cross someones mind.

Oh, and while if I lost my dog to a trap, I'd go off the deep and and probably beat the sht out of the trapper responsible if I could find him, it is highly unlikely because I don't hunt in ways that it's very likely that my dog would come across one(I only duck hunt, no grouse and rarely even pheasant).

[Tim Anderson]

If they'd educate themselves so their actually smarter than the coyote, and get off their lazy ass and actually leave the truck they might kill something!

The new Bill has nothing to do with lazey or uneducated coyote hunters. Its just openning the door for the use of other tools to knock the numbers down in problem areas or areas with a high coyote population.. The southern half of the state dose'nt have alot of tree's or forests.... Some areas are pretty big and once we get the heavey snows they become in accessable for most hunters....

[Tim Anderson]

I have commented a few times that maybe we as trappers should be going to these Ducks Unlimited and Pheasent Forever banquets and conventions; teaching hunters how to efficently remove a body grip trap if they are ever faced with that scenario.

Good Idea.. But what about the hunters that don't go to these banquets?????

[lyonch]

I have commented a few times that maybe we as trappers should be going to these Ducks Unlimited and Pheasent Forever banquets and conventions; teaching hunters how to efficently remove a body grip trap if they are ever faced with that scenario.

Good Idea.. But what about the hunters that don't go to these banquets?????

You will never reach everyone 100%, but you will catch a majority of the die hards at these. These are the guys that stand the highest percentage of getting their dog caught in a trap since they spend the most time a field. Your opening weekend warrior isn't exposed very much to these because most of their season is done before trapping even starts. Most cases and occurences happen during the months of December, and January.

[Tim Anderson]

These are the guys that stand the highest percentage of getting their dog caught in a trap since they spend the most time a field.

I agree these guys are at a greater risk but most of them don't spend that much time in the field, or at least not around here.
The so called die hards in my area don't go to many of these gatherings as the groups that put these on have ther own agenda that most don't agree with..
Any way you have a good idea though..
Perhaps Mn. should do away with the bucket set though or limit to were it canbe used.. The wooden box cuby would be a better choice with a few mod.s made to it.. You can still catch a dog in them but the trap usually gets ahold of the dog around the muzzle rather than the neck and by makeing the box a tad longer and setting the trap in a little deeper would put a end to this....
I use mostly the break-away coni bears but I see that they are no longer made. They have a pin on each side you just pull them out when a dog is caught in one and it just takes a second.

[lyonch]

i personally feel that if they were to loosen up the regulations on snares, a lot more people would utilize them instead of the cubby or bucket set. This would go fro coons and bobcats. Just switching them to a 3 day check would make them feasible to use on a decent cat or coon line.

[barebackjack]

Isnt there a bill right now to regulate 220 conibears to only being allowed in water or at least five feet off the ground (effectively eliminating them for land use)?

Yes there is BBJ. This will eliminate a lot of coon trapping in MN and it will also be the end of a lot of cat trapping here. That is the only trap we can use for a 3 day check for bobcats. The 220 is a very effective trap in taking out a lot of predators. The bucket set is something i rarely use anymore, but if they put that restriction on the 220 it will hurt my take in coon. The MTA has an angle in which they will be taking on this situation. They are being secretive about it because they don't want the opposing side to have a counter to their approach.


Reading the rules and regulations book in MN will actually show you how to remove a bodygrip trap from a dog. When i heard one guy say he pet his dog for 10 minutes before he shot her to put her out of missery really rubs me the wrong way. If that dog was a live for 10 minutes, it wasn't going to die. Familiarizing yourself on what should have been done, would have saved that dogs life easy. I hear people say "why should i have to carry a rope when i'm hunting for these traps or a setters" well you actually dont have to. You are wearing a set of boots that have laves correct? There is your rope. Understand how to utilize it to set a bodgygrip trap and we wouldn't be having this problem. Most of these people that are having their dog killed by a 220 bodgygrip don't have a grasp on their dog when out hunting. I might not have done as much pheasent hunting as some people have, but i do know that i always knew where my dog was. It doesn't pay to have them hunting ground birds further in front of you then what your shotgun can reach

Whats more, ive heard from a couple people, that one of the guys that lost a dog, is a trapper himself!

Also, his account of what happened, isnt what really happened. Another story of poochie was somewhere poochie shouldnt have been.....i.e., the guy didnt have a handle on his dog and it got away from him.

Dogs have a better chance of getting hit by a vehicle than they do of being killed in a conibear. How many hunting dogs are run over vs how many are lost in conibears?

[barebackjack]

If they'd educate themselves so their actually smarter than the coyote, and get off their lazy ass and actually leave the truck they might kill something!

The new Bill has nothing to do with lazey or uneducated coyote hunters. Its just openning the door for the use of other tools to knock the numbers down in problem areas or areas with a high coyote population.. The southern half of the state dose'nt have alot of tree's or forests.... Some areas are pretty big and once we get the heavey snows they become in accessable for most hunters....

Bullshit.

Sleds being legalized is to compensate for the general laziness of most "hunters". Even Joe Moron beer gut can kill a coyote on a snowmobile.

As far as you last comment, its called snowshoes. Dont be a lazy ass, strap em on, and get back in and kill some coyotes!

Makes a whole lot of sense, MN has some retarded snaring/trapping regs that hinder them as a harvest tool, but hey, lets legalize sleds and planes and just harrass ALL the wildlife.

[barebackjack]

Oh, and while if I lost my dog to a trap, I'd go off the deep and and probably beat the sht out of the trapper responsible if I could find him, it is highly unlikely because I don't hunt in ways that it's very likely that my dog would come across one(I only duck hunt, no grouse and rarely even pheasant).

So if your dog was accidentally hit and killed by a car would you beat the shit out of the driver?

Accidents happen man, thats life.

[barebackjack]

I think people just need to realize that sh*t happens.

As a trapper, I for one take severe umbrage when stuff like this comes up. Where do dog owners (hunters) get off thinking their activity has more precedent than another (like trapping) and that other activities should be banned in favor of theirs? Kind of like the way the hound hunters have strangled trapping and snaring in Michigan. They've pretty much eliminated snaring as a tool there, yet they get to do their activity un-affected. Its not right.

Trappers have every bit as much right as hunters to be doing what they do.

Bad things happen, a hunting dog can accidentally die by a plethora of reasons, and id bet my next paycheck that more hunting dogs were run over or accidentally shot by their own damn owners last year in MN than were killed in 220's. How many dogs were confirmed killed by 220s in MN last year? SIX! Six measly dogs die, but by god we better just abolish this practice all together! Get over yourselves and get over it.

Trappings under enough pressure that we dont need other so called "sportsmen" picking on us too.

[Dcoy]

BBJ,
We've moved beyond punji pits and spring guns.If you can't trap without killing dogs and unintended targets give it up.Most of my neighbors trap and aren't opposed to efforts to keep dogs safe.In fact they attribute the current issues to the price of fur and idiot(read slob) trappers out to make the quick,easy buck.You're right trappers and trapping are under pressure.This situation is only going to make it worse.Regulate yourselves if you can-if not,know full well others will.

[lyonch]

BBJ - The gentlemen who got his dog caught and is a trapper is completely full of it. He is trying to come up with an excuse for his shortcomings as a trapper and a sportsmen in general. I know this guys neighbor quite well, and he claims that this guys is always trying to do what he can to be noticed by the public eye. He has pulled a lot of stunts just trying to pull the "poor me" move on more issues than this one.

I completely agree that your dog stands a lot higher chance of getting hit by a car, catch a life threatening disease, or many other things before they will be caught in a trap. The majority of dogs used afield would probably have to be labs. Last time i checked, it is really hard for a dog that size to get a 7" square trap beyond its head and get choked out. Now granted the trigger configuration plays a big role on how deep the catch is, but most trappers i know, want that coon or cat caught right behind the head, and not a suit case catch.

I highly doubt the MN DNR will allow a bill to pass that will allow snomobiles to be used in taking game. I promise you there will be some people dieing from it. It takes one idiot rider focused on getting that coyote when a fence pops up out of nowhere and he/she is decappitated. Get serious folks!!

I see that since MN has been trying to get NR's allowed to trap that there has been a lot of bills/laws trying to get sneaked through legislature. I don't know if they feel we as a group will over look it, and allow it pass without a fight, or any other reason they can come up with. It's pretty sad that we all need to be educated on how to fight a political fight instead of a good black and white right or wrong rules and regulations

[cb186]

Oh, and while if I lost my dog to a trap, I'd go off the deep and and probably beat the sht out of the trapper responsible if I could find him, it is highly unlikely because I don't hunt in ways that it's very likely that my dog would come across one(I only duck hunt, no grouse and rarely even pheasant).

So if your dog was accidentally hit and killed by a car would you beat the shit out of the driver?

Accidents happen man, thats life.

No, because that would mean that my dog was out in the road where he wants supposed to be. Now, if the car drove through my yard and hit my dog, then yes.

Are you saying my dog has no business on public hunting land?

[cb186]

I think people just need to realize that sh*t happens.

As a trapper, I for one take severe umbrage when stuff like this comes up. Where do dog owners (hunters) get off thinking their activity has more precedent than another (like trapping) and that other activities should be banned in favor of theirs? Kind of like the way the hound hunters have strangled trapping and snaring in Michigan. They've pretty much eliminated snaring as a tool there, yet they get to do their activity un-affected. Its not right.

Trappers have every bit as much right as hunters to be doing what they do.

Bad things happen, a hunting dog can accidentally die by a plethora of reasons, and id bet my next paycheck that more hunting dogs were run over or accidentally shot by their own damn owners last year in MN than were killed in 220's. How many dogs were confirmed killed by 220s in MN last year? SIX! Six measly dogs die, but by god we better just abolish this practice all together! Get over yourselves and get over it.

Trappings under enough pressure that we dont need other so called "sportsmen" picking on us too.

First of all, your rights to hunt and fish does not give you the right to kill my dog. My dog is not a legal game animal. Your rights end when what you are doing infringes on my rights.
Second of all, it is about responsibility and control. When I hunt, I have to make sure that I am shooting animals that are legal to be taken. If you are not sure you cannot "accidentally" kill an non targeted animal, than you should not be trapping.
How about I set up some snares at your kids playground and see how you feel? Hey, whats a few kids? They'll make more!