Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

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bucksnbears
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by bucksnbears »

here's my veiw for what it's worth. i shot v-maxes and b/tips out of my .222 and 250 for years. most of the time they worked just fine. however, i ai'nt the best shot in the world and have been known to miss the easy ones but good at taking them on the fly,texas heart shots. this is where the plastic tips fail horrably. Lyonch convinced me to try the 55 gamekings from sierra #1365 and i did. now if i do miss a easy shot, i know my bullet will still do what it needs to do even with a shot up the rear. why shoot a bullet that does the job 75% of the time when you can shoot one that will do it most all the time. i shot enough coyotes this year to absolutaly convince myself that i have the right bullet. sure, tyhheymay exit but so what?? usually a small one and i don't get huge surface splashes like the plastic ones can do. plus they shoot aewsome and are just a cheap. i've also shot a few with txs's and the work aewsome but they just don't shoot well out of my rifles. plus expensive. hell, i think the .22 nosler partition is probably the best bullet i've iver shot coyotes with but they are just to damn much $ for the amount i shoot. edited to add: i just came back from a hunt and brought my .222 with for a gun to ride up front. i brought the wrong box of ammo for it. 50 b/t's. shot 3 coyotes with it and wounded all of them.
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coyotelatrans
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by coyotelatrans »

BucksNbears exactly what I thought you would say :D I call that horrible as well and the reason I went away from those bullets as well!!! They are not consistant performers,again not the bullets fault people trying to do to much with them for something they really where never meant to be used on, but the speed kills crowd is alive and well, be it archery or rifle hunting.

When I look at bullets I want something that will produce the same results no matter the shot placement, doesn't mean big holes and nasty coyotes all the time, but I want them to perform as close to the same as possible and those ain't what I call a constant performer as your photo cleary shows.

Jaybic a dedicated contest rifle, that would depend on where your hunting and the terrian of such areas. If you have alot of coyotes in broken country and cedar filled draws I don't see the need of a hyper velocity gun. If your hunting wide open flats in the west and areas with alot of calling pressure, then one can assume your avergae over all shooting distance will be expanded. But if one is calling leased ground or areas with little calling pressure in a contest, most are going to come within 150 yrds, so it is the added exspense and time worth it? That is for you to decide.

If your looking to AI a gun like a 250 and 80% of your hunting will be in a state such as Minn and shots are going to be on avg inside 150 yards what real benefit is one getting? The trajectory of a standard 250 in the range of 300 yards or less, your not going to see a big advantage from the AI over the standard, again what do I expect from this build is what you need to ask yourself.
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coyotelatrans
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by coyotelatrans »

If you looking to maximize your time and kill rate in a contest situation then a 6mm offering would fit nicely, the damage is not overkill when matching the proper bullet to the species, they really are not. Plus you have more down range energy and that less than ideal hit, will still anchor them with authority and your not spending contest time chasing down coyotes :D .

Bucks and bears I agree with your assements, the nosler partition would be of a very few if I where to shoot my 250 much anymore on coyotes, the other I would like to experament with in the future is the 55 grain Hornady GMX the no lead bullets they make brand new for this year are a 55 and 70 in the .22 cal offerings! Sure they cost more but would be a solid performer I bet. They sure aren't going to serperate and expload!!!!!

Nothing wrong with plastic tipped bullets as long as there design is meant for something other than p-dogs and other rodents :D The Bal tips and interbonds have plastic tips but are designed for things other than rodents!!!!!! Better construction means better results IMO on coyotes.


To end this thread for me I don;'t want or need to use a bullet that does what BucksNbears posted, I have been there and not what I want or expect from a "good" coyote bullet, there are times things are out of the shooters control and if a better bullet can bring back some of that disadvantage I'm all for it!!!!
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Tim Anderson
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by Tim Anderson »

[quIf your looking to AI a gun like a 250 and 80% of your hunting will be in a state such as Minn and shots are going to be on avg inside 150 yards what real benefit is one getting? The trajectory of a standard 250 in the range of 300 yards or less, your not going to see a big advantage from the AI over the standard, again what do I expect from this build is what you need to ask yourself.ote][/quote]

I don't know if you have ever been to Mn. and if so where abouts but in most areas south of #2 youre shots canbe anywhere from a few 100 yards out to a half mile if you wish to attempt such a shot.. A 22-250 ackley will gain around 100-200 fps. over the factory 22-250, not much of a gain but it does make a difference when shooting med. weight bullets...


[quoteIf you looking to maximize your time and kill rate in a contest situation then a 6mm offering would fit nicely, the damage is not overkill when matching the proper bullet to the species, they really are not. Plus you have more down range energy and that less than ideal hit, will still anchor them with authority and your not spending contest time chasing down coyotes][/quote]

Looks good on paper but in reality a bad hit is a bad hit no matter what cartridge you use..

I've seen bad hits with a 22-250 all the way up to a 300 win. mag., the guy with the mag had to take 3 shots to put the coyote down.. Thats just the way it is and the only way for a hunter to change this is to become a better shot or wait for a higher percentage shot...


Here are some pic.'s of southern Mn. which is mostly farm land with a few big ridges and drainages.
Image



A coyote on a half mile fence line;
Image

17 Pred. doing a little wet work. :mrgreen: Image

Image
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bucksnbears
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by bucksnbears »

THESE 3 COYOTE WERE FROM YESTERDAY. JUST GOT DONE SKINNING THEM, HERES WHAT I FOUND(oops). pic #1 was shot by me at about 350 yards with a 22-250 with a 50 b't. (i ran outta soft points).broadside heart shot,no exit. caliber sized enterance hole in the hide but LOTS of carcass damage. made skinning a mess. 2nd pic was shot by me with a 250 at about 70-80 yards straight on with 55 sierra game king soft point. caliber entreance,no exit. no carcass damage. easy skinnin. :D 3rd was one i wounded and my buddy finished it off. 280 yards with a .220 swift improved with a 50 b/t. straight on. caliber sized enterance but the damage to the carcass was unbeilable. i could look down the fist sized hole and damn near see the guts. very messy skinnin :shock: also the pic i posted earlier was the exit hole. an honest 6x6 inch HOLE :shock: i really don't give a crap what people shoot em with but for a tournament and fur hunters, it just makes sense to use a bullet that will rarely let you down.
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barebackjack
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by barebackjack »

Who skins march coyotes!?

Someone must be practicing. :mrgreen:
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by barebackjack »

coyotelatrans wrote: but the speed kills crowd is alive and well, be it archery or rifle hunting.
This is huge.

Just because you have a rifle that can push 4000+ fps doesnt mean it will perform best there. Accuracy and good bullet terminal performance will always trump a few extra hundred fps in my book.

Same with archery, I argue with the "speed kills" crowd all the time. Id rather have my "slow" heavy arrow with a cut on contact fixed blade any day over their hyper speed light arrow that has to have a mechanical head on it as its to fast to tune with anything else.
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bucksnbears
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by bucksnbears »

barebackjack wrote:Who skins march coyotes!?

Someone must be practicing. :mrgreen:
I is :mrgreen: . we kept 5 outta 8 and they still look awesome. heres one that had an GREAT hide. an old,broken toothed,blind in one eye,hog. an honest 38-40 lberImage. another huge old male that looked like it was shot in jan. you're quitting way to damn early :mrgreen:
Image
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coyotelatrans
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by coyotelatrans »

Tim I'm betting a good plenty of called coyotes one encounters in many locals are going to be at or under 300 yrds from the shooter. Not talking sniping at coyotes from the half section distance when you see them out and about. That would break most contest rules :D
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Tim Anderson
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by Tim Anderson »

Ooops! sorry about that.. I thought we were talking about bullets... :oops:

I only do one contest and I don't think there is a rule on how far you can shoot a called coyote.... :mrgreen:
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by Tim Anderson »

Just because you have a rifle that can push 4000+ fps doesnt mean it will perform best there. Accuracy and good bullet terminal performance will always trump a few extra hundred fps in my book.

Same with archery, I argue with the "speed kills" crowd all the time. Id rather have my "slow" heavy arrow with a cut on contact fixed blade any day over their hyper speed light arrow that has to have a mechanical head on it as its to fast to tune with anything else.
You have to match the bullet to the speed you are going to send it down range at..
I started with the 52 gr. sierra's but found they where lacking abit as far as down range accuracy goes. So the next bullet in line to try was the 52 gr. A-max. It holds its path well going to its target and for me does a pretty good job..

As for archery it dosen't really matter what you use as long as the arrow and broad-head can penatrate deep enough and leave a good size blood channel at what ever distance you plan to shoot.. I will add that you do have to match the weight of broad-head to what size of animal you plan to shoot... Archery is a whole different game, the arrow is'nt intended to put the animal down on the spot but to get it to bleed out quickly...
Did a little arrow tossing in my day but I'm retired now, get more satisfaction from hunting coyotes with a gun... :mrgreen:
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by xdeano »

coyotes are looking wooly no matter where the area. The guard tips are a lot shorter than one may think, and you'll see it if you compair them to a coyote from January. Trust me they've gone way down hill since prime. You can definitely give them hell. They'll be good training tools. These are the coyotes that i usually skin and dry to use as a play toy for the dogs, they love them, but they don't last very long. ;) hehe.

Ok guys, let's just agree to disagree on bullets, because we're not getting anywhere. It all comes down to shot placement and weather you're shooting for fur, for fun or ADC. The guys shooting for fur and fun (ie tournaments, to get out of the house) are doing fine with the small fast bullet in vmax, lead nose, hp's, will all lead to fur and fun part. These bullets have shot and killed thousands of coyotes over the years and no one has really bitched about it. They're basically proven to take coyotes. But it depends on shot placement. If you can't hit the vitals of a coyote, you'd better not worry about how fast the bullet is traveling or weather or not it has a plastic tip. You'd better be practicing in the off season instead and work on that placement.

Now with the ADC crowd, you'd be choosing a different bullet, maybe a bullet that is more specific to the job at hand. Does it make this bullet the end all of bullets? by no means. These guys want to find a bullet that does the job with one round and wants to move on to the second, third or maybe forth coyotes and not have to look back at that first coyote.

Bullets and people are changing and the better the person gets at putting that bullet where it's suppose to go the less he'll have to worry about the composition of the bullet itself. As a caller gets better at his/her craft they tend to be more specific as to where the bullet will land and will most often take a much higher probability shot.

xdeano
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bucksnbears
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by bucksnbears »

Xdeano. i respect the hell out of you and consider you a friend but will disagree big time with you on this. your an adc guy that has a job that depends on you doing a job. if you don't have the "perfect shot" you don't take it and come back another day and try to get that perfect shot. i'm not one and if i have a coyote in range, he's gonna get lead thrown his way. i may never have a chance at this coyote again!!. i want a bullet that WILL get the job done no matter what and v-maxes and b/t's will not do it reliably. i don't like to wound ANYTHING ,but have done a good job of it shooting plastic tipped bullets. since swithching to a well constructed soft point those rarely happen. they flat out hammer coyotes no matter the angle :wink:
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by Prairie Ghost »

everyone has different things that they pay attention too. If you don't sell of put up your fur and just throw them in the ditch then damage is of no importance. If you want the fur you will put up with less knock down to save fur. If you're in ADC you want something that knocks them down for the count on the first shot period!! The down range stuff is again changing with everyone. Some guys here can shoot consistently to 500yds some don't pull the trigger once the coyote gets past 300 that would change what you're looking for in a bullet. There is no one answer here boys it depends on the shooter. This is like arguing over religion
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barebackjack
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by barebackjack »

Tim Anderson wrote:
Just because you have a rifle that can push 4000+ fps doesnt mean it will perform best there. Accuracy and good bullet terminal performance will always trump a few extra hundred fps in my book.

Same with archery, I argue with the "speed kills" crowd all the time. Id rather have my "slow" heavy arrow with a cut on contact fixed blade any day over their hyper speed light arrow that has to have a mechanical head on it as its to fast to tune with anything else.
You have to match the bullet to the speed you are going to send it down range at..
I started with the 52 gr. sierra's but found they where lacking abit as far as down range accuracy goes. So the next bullet in line to try was the 52 gr. A-max. It holds its path well going to its target and for me does a pretty good job..

As for archery it dosen't really matter what you use as long as the arrow and broad-head can penatrate deep enough and leave a good size blood channel at what ever distance you plan to shoot.. I will add that you do have to match the weight of broad-head to what size of animal you plan to shoot... Archery is a whole different game, the arrow is'nt intended to put the animal down on the spot but to get it to bleed out quickly...
Did a little arrow tossing in my day but I'm retired now, get more satisfaction from hunting coyotes with a gun... :mrgreen:
The same can be said, "matching the speed to the bullet".

I know I can send a .22 cal 50 grain Nosler BT down range a hell of a lot faster than I do. But it doesnt shoot as accurately, nor have the desired terminal ballistics upon impact as it does slower, in this case slower is better. I didnt match the bullet to the speed, I matched the speed to the bullet.

Speed schmeed. If the only thing im gaining by going faster is flatter trajectory, than im not going to try to go faster. And when it comes to "plastic tip bullets" and coyotes, faster isnt necessarily the way to go. But, many guys have been brainwashed into thinking faster is always better.

That being said, im always going to try to milk the most speed I can out of a load. But if an extra 100 fps means loose groups or impacts terminal performance in a negative fashion, im gonna slow it back down real quick.

Theres only 1001 bullets out there that will kill coyotes. And if one wanted, they could most likely make a full-time job out of experimenting with them. Me, id rather just find one that works, and shoot the crap out of it and learn the subtleties and nuances of THAT load/bullet real well rather than jumping around from one bullet to the next. More power to the guys that have the time/money to do that, I dont. Experience and an intimate knowledge of your load is ultimately what kills.

But, it seems the general concensus is light v-maxs arent the best for coyote work.
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