Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

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LeviM
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by LeviM »

How are the interbonds design different than the Vmax's??
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coyotelatrans
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by coyotelatrans »

Levi good question the major differance is the interbond is a bonded core bullet, meaning they won't seperate or be near as exsplosive as a V-max. The core Lead and copper jacket are bonded together weight retention is above 85% for sure on most hits. They have a thicker harder jacket for sure. The reason they cost about 2 times as much, but when used for coyotes and not 6 hrs on a P-dog town really doesn't matter to me cost as much as reliability of that bullet! The inter bonds will hold up to large game but I'm thinking they should do well on coyotes as well, reliable exspansion over a broad range is their plus!
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Tim Anderson
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by Tim Anderson »

[quote][/Tim wrote the amax is a stronger bullet, well Tim maybe by a shade over the V max but nothing you can count on for reliable exspansion. It is a match grade jacket and tolernaces but is really not built for hunting. Look in Hornady product catalog and they show all their bullets and effects you will get on game performance of all bullets except 2 that being the V max and A max your not recovering much of anything from either. Not saying they don't have a purpose they do but for me not on coyotes. I have shot a pile of 52 gr A max from a 22-250, very accurate and they work well if you keep the bullet in the right place, if not well same issue we have been talking about bullet splash and not consistant from shot placement to shot placement.quote]

The 52 A-max was designed for longer range target shooting Just like the 52 and 53 gr. match bullets. Difference is the A-max is a little longer than the other match bullets of same weight and cal. and to me performs about the same as a H.P. on coyotes... I can see from youre posts you think along the same lines as a big-game hunter and want a bullet that stays together and smashes bone and goes through a animal.. I've always hunted coyotes and fox for the hides and what I look for in a bullet as far as performance is one hole in and nothing comeing out, in other words I like a bullet that exspands all its energy inside the animal.. Big game hunters want a blood channel all the way through, I don't ! I just want to have the bullet destroy the tissue just past the hide on the inside...
As far as the 52 A-max performance results I get maybe due to the fact that I push them as fast as I can in my Ackley (3900 fps. + ) .. When a shooter goes up in weight on bullets or goes to a very strong bullet then you will have or get the same results as someone useing a FMJ which is designed to just pass through a animal leaveing a small blood channel all the way through..

My go to rifle the last couple of years has been the 17 Pred. useing 30 gr. Golds ( H.P.).. The bullet goes inside and on most cases blows up destroyong the tissue inside the animal and putting it down for keeps.
Once in awhile I will get a through and through on a broad-side shot which is just whats left of the bullets base passing through.. If the coyotes in the area I'm calling come in pretty easey and are under 400 yds. then the 17 Pred. is all I use.. But if I get into a area where the coyotes may be a little spooky and tend to hang up a little farther then I'll switch to one of the bigger cal.'s but don't use anymore than I have to..

Image

52 gr. A-max damage..
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coyotelatrans
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by coyotelatrans »

Tim those pics are of good placed shots show me some pics of not in the kitchen hits! I have seen them first hand and the faster you push a thin jacketed bullet the more exsploive they will be on impact. Meaning hit a shoulder bone and your penetration is nill. The reason I went away from varmint offerings and match offerings.

The nolser 95's have really been a surprise they are a great bullet for coyotes even if I where hunting for pelts I would still use them and have little work to do on the majority of them. I have seen the zipper effect of those 52 A Maxs with a belly hit! A controlled exspansion bullet is going to give more solid results for sure, over the exsplosive types specially when people want to push them at decent speeds. I don't have much worry about dropping coyotes with a better built bullet, they dirt nap it quick for sure :D

I'm hoping to run the 85 Interbonds at 3,080 fps or so as that will fit my retical well and want to see the performance on various hits on coyotes with them. The nolser 95's many you get no exit again depending on distance, face on shots in the bread basket very,very few they go in do their thing and stay side impacts more exits but hard to tell on the exit but again the energy transfer is plent sufficant they don't run very much for sure. When put all into account one bullet guru stated the 95 nosler 6mm could possibly be the best bullet ever made. Very consistant and not an over killer on many things, just great energy transfer and postive exspansion, hoping to get the same from the interbonds and be 10 grains lighter for a hair better trajectory, again the BC is for good for a bullet that size.
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jaybic
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by jaybic »

I guess I am in the other camp on this one. I have been shooting vmax bullets at coyotes with .223s and 22.250s for about 10 years now I I have had few run-offs with them at all. I am not talking about an offhand shot at a running dog(much more likely to have a run off in this scenario) and just clipping him kind of run off, but sitting on a stand with a solid shot off my sticks or bipid when I KNOW that I hit him hard. I have used 40s and 50s in both calibers and I can only think of one real run off that I have had and it was a 300 yard shot at a sitting down coyote(probably a bad idea....I should have stood him up) with my .223 using 40s and lost him. Here in MN the shots tend to be a bit closer than out in ND. After that I went to 50s exclusively in both calibers and I am thinking about turning my 22-250 into an AI and moving up to 55s for a little more SMACK. Other than that, I have had great luck with them in both rifles. My 22 250 runs the 50s at 3650 and it just crushes them when hit head on in the chest. Its like slow motion, the back legs fold up like they are gonna sit down, bottom jaw falls open and they tip over on one side. Broadside, it have had no problems either and even real close, rarely and exit hole. Skin them and its just jello inside.

They been great on fur as well. I dont know I guess but its just my experience and living here in se MN, I know I dont get the chance at the numbers of coyotes that some of you guys get but overall, I dont have anything bad to say about them. I have shot the 55 NBTs out of my 22-250 and they drove tacks but always went through and left and exit hole about the size of a quarter or a little larger. I also know that most of the guys posting on the thread damn sure know what they are talking about but this has just been my experience. I am also damn sure that most or all of the run offs that I have had were about not only where I hit them(shot placement) but the angle that I hit them at(not squarely) and perhaps, distance. I can say this and be pretty darn sure of it being realistic and that is I have never had a coyote come in close, get hit SQUARELY in the sweet spot and have him get away. I just think that when it has happened to me, it had more to it that just it being a vmax. If and when it starts happening and I see a pattern that I can for sure trace back to the vmaxs and nothing else, I will change bullets right then and there. Otherwise, for me anyway, if it aint broke.......

Good luck fellas. :D
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LeviM
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by LeviM »

CL - Thanks for the great input!
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Tim Anderson
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by Tim Anderson »

[Tim those pics are of good placed shots show me some pics of not in the kitchen hits! I have seen them first hand and the faster you push a thin jacketed bullet the more exsploive they will be on impact. Meaning hit a shoulder bone and your penetration is nill. The reason I went away from varmint offerings and match offerings.

/quote]

Sorry but I don't get too many hits out of the kitchen, one of the reasons why I like fast and flat..
I have a few guys I hunt with that still use a 243 and a 243 ackley and they have a higher percentage of damage with these cal. and bullet combo than I do with mine.. They finally wised up some and have gone to a better bullet that performs well down range but still 50/50 for damage. One of the guys uses a 60 gr. match H.P. and the other is useing the 58 gr. V-max with the V-max doing the most damage of the two mentioned..You need to keep in mind most shots here at home are made on running coyotes so shot placement is'nt always going to be the best and still a coin toss on what the damage will be..
I have taken two coyotes so far with the Pred. that took hits to the shoulder and one through the front leg and gone into the chest, both times the bullet just bored a little hole through the bone and went inside and did its job...

When put all into account one bullet guru stated the 95 nosler 6mm could possibly be the best bullet ever made. Very consistant and not an over killer on many things, just great energy transfer and postive exspansion, hoping to get the same from the interbonds and be 10 grains lighter for a hair better trajectory, again the BC is for good for a bullet that size.
Good BC is also nice to have but kinda defeats itself if the bullet is moveing to slow compared to a faster and lighter bullet. A fast moveing bullet spends less time in flight which gives the wind less time to effect it path and its drop is'nt as much so less hold-over or dialing in is needed..
Here is one pick of one of my worst shots at a coyote running away at 300 yds or so, it did go a little ways after the hit but stilled died and did'nt require a follow up shot.

Image


Shoulder hit with 17 Pred.
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Another shoulder hit.22-250 ackley/ A-max.
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barebackjack
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by barebackjack »

Shot two sheep killing dogs today with the .243 and the 87 gr V-maxs.

Punched clear through a 45 lb mutt lab broadside at 150 yards or so, 2-3 inch size exit (with shoulder involvement). Second one got the top of his head taken off at 303 yards. They do a bit of damage on a head hit!

Granted it was only one kill, but looking at that lab, i'm sure they'll be more than enough medicine for coyotes, even with forward hits. Im hoping with the usual frontal calling shot of a coyote facing, they'll stay inside.
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by coyotelatrans »

jaybic by changing your gun to a AI and 50-55 grain bullets what do you want to achieve? If your going to AI then get a faster twist barrel and go with even heavier bullets in that 250, be better yet if you could find a high BC bullet with some back bone to it besides a varmint offering, if your going to stay in that 50-55 grain range not much sense in changing to an AI if most of your shots are going to be under 250 yrds, just my thoughts as at that rnage the AI won't buy you much over a standard 250. But a free world and what ever makes you happy :D I think the craze anymore is to have something other than a standard offering but I look at what would the true gain be for the added exspense and time of fire forming brass and buying higher cost dies.

I know of one ADC guy that made himself a 25 STW, I thought what is the point? A standard 25-06 will handle the job plenty well to ranges of 500+ yards and your burning more powder, spending time fire forming brass, and less barrel life for a few 100 FPS? Makes little sense to me but each to his own.

Tim high shoulder shots, you know I think, what I mean a sqaure shoulder bone hit, I have seen that result enough to know a 52 gr A max or for that matter an 80 grain Bal TIP in a .243 is splash city and that is what I wanted to get away from. The rougher the ground the more of those a guy can or will lose over time. A dog can help but still I like the performance of a bigger, better built bullet.

Tim I'm betting those .17 caliber bullets have more "meat" than most standard varmint bullets?

Tim you have 2 ways of approaching wind drift a smaller faster bullet or a larger some what slower bullet, just because a bullet is heavier and some slower doesn't mean it has more wind drift. Look at 1,000yrd bench shooters and see how many of those are using 22 caliber weapons!!!!! There is a place in each caliber for a bullet with a high BC and a certian FPS that will produce good wind drift results. The problem I have when it comes to coyotes and hitting them at longer ranges with wind is it is not constant to the target a majority of the time leaving inches of error and I would rather a have a good bullet choice that will perform with that issue over a lighting fast zipper with poor contsruction. I know of those using 6mm 22 offerings but you better have a darn good constructed bullet or things will get very messy and runner coyotes.
Last edited by coyotelatrans on Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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coyotelatrans
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by coyotelatrans »

Why would I want to push a 55 grain thin and exsplosive bullet at 4,300 FPS? If I don't hit correctly that things is going to be in such fragments won;'t have the punch at times to get on thru to the vitals. Again shoot what you want but I'll stick with a larger bullet made of better "metal" they have served me darn well.
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Tim Anderson
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by Tim Anderson »

No one said you had to use a light fragile bullet.. Most are just saying what they use and why... I was down that road many years ago looking for the perfect bullet for fox or coyotes from the litest up to some of the heavies, I found what works for me depending on what cartridge I'm useing at the time... If you feel a heavey bullet is the answer then use it if you want, no one saying you can't.....

As for going to a ackley alot can be gained. No brass trimming with most, shoot a med weight bullet faster than the parent cartridge to get a flatter traj., Less hold over with fewer miss placed shots, less wind deflection...
I'll admitt a heavier bullet will have more energy at longer distances, but will also have too much energy at times..

Oh, here are some bullets (whats left of them) I recovered from some of the coyotes I've taken, with a cooper BB at the bottom left for size comparison.
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bucksnbears
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by bucksnbears »

this one was shot yesterday. 50 ballistic tip at 4200.
Image
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coyotelatrans
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by coyotelatrans »

Bucks and bears do you consider that good bullet performance?

Or I will ask would anyone want that on anything larger than a p-dog or ground hog?
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by bucksnbears »

nope. horrible performance. this one was shot by a buddy. i don't shoot plastic tipped bullets at coyotes anymore. i learned my lesson coupla years ago
the more food you have in your mouth at one time, the better you can taste it!!!
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jaybic
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Re: Shooting Coyotes with V-max Bullets...

Post by jaybic »

coyotelatrans,
My rifle is a Savage 16 with a 1/12 twist and i was thinking of making it into an AI and moving up to a 55 or even a 60 gr vmax just for some extra punch because even though I live here in SE MN, I do hunt ND a good number of days and the occassional trip to SD. I know regular 22-250s are typicaly 1/14 so my 1/12 should be able to stabilize these bullets well. I am no ballistics whiz and maybe its a waste of time but my intent is pretty much to max out the performance of the rifle for tournament hunting purposes when every coyote counts and in the process burn up the barrel so I can rebarrel with a fast twist 22-6 or straight up 6mm or 243 round. My intent is to build a dedicated tournament rifle and then practice with it until I can extend my comfort zone as far as distance goes and btw, if any one has any advice to offer on the matter, I am all ears. I am actually thinking about ordering 2 barrels at the same time so if I burn one up in load developement and summer practice that I will have another barrel that come off the lathe and they are as close to identical as possible. I realize that there still may be differences in them and here again, it may make no sense but it just seems logical to me knowing that the life of a 22-6 barrel is not real long. Have any of you guys tried this or is my idea maybe not so good.

I know the original thread is about vmax bullets and thats what I prefer to shoot as they have not given me a reason to change yet but when I do get to the rebarreling stage, I am not so stupid or stubborn that I HAVE to shoot them. The funny part it that honest to god, there are enough people on this thread whose knowledge I respect that I feel like I should change bullets just because of their experiences. Some of the best coyote hunters I have had the priviledge of talking to in person or on the net have all the these bad expereinces with the vmax line is starting to make me want to change my bullet that I have never had a problem with. WOW, how easily influenced am ???????

Anyway, like I said, if anyone has any advice on any of my hair-brained ideas or theories, please feel free to share. I may not take your advice but I am certainly willing to give it an honest listen.

Take it easy fellas, :D

Jaybic
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