Quick Question

[leadbiscuit]

Had a new coyote move into the neighborhood. I heard it howling Sun. night and I got it going tonight with female long howls on my foxpro. Seems like it was in the same spot tonight that it was the last time I heard it. I'd like to wish it a Happy Thanksgiving tomorrow morning. Question is: do I go with prey sounds or try my luck with coyote vocals. I'm not used to dealing with coyotes as vocal as this bugger. It only took 2 howls to light this dog up. If it's denned up where I think, I only need to get it to come about a hundred yards over a hill and it will be within 550 yards of where I plan to set up. Very doable on a short bipod with a rear bag.

lead

[doggdown]

digs like that i usually howl first few times. if i get no response i will go to distress after a few minutes of waiting. if the dog hears it and just doesnt respond then hears a distress he/she may think that dog it just heard has found an easy meal... GLUCK!

[EO caller]

Well? Howd it go?

[leadbiscuit]

Tried canine pup distress and a few howls with no luck. Gonna give it a few days and try setting up in a different spot.The wind was mine, and I'm pretty sure he(?) didn't bust me. I'm thinkin' there was nobody home.

lead

[EO caller]

Probly so. He'll be back.

[Coyotehunter]

now we are clear on that they are not denning or denned up this time of year right...........just saying. They move around a lot this time year. here today and gone tomorrow.

[Tim Anderson]

now we are clear on that they are not denning or denned up this time of year right

Relax! Its just a figure of speech here. Proably would of went better if he said it was holed up somewhere.
Yes our coyotes here do spend time in a culvert or hole in the ground or under some old farm building outside of denning time..

[leadbiscuit]

Yeah. Poor choice of words. Oviously a pet peeve of CH's. Could very well be a transient coyote. I'm thinking it'll stick around that spot. Plenty of food and it's not visible from the road. Basically a 3-4 acre slough surrounded by good sized hills. I shot several fox out of there in the last couple years. But they appear to be gone. I realize they're not using dens for the purpose of raising pups this time of year. When the coyote howled back to me I got the impression it was it was letting me know he was a bad mother and I was in his house. Could be wrong though. I'm guessing they'll use a "hole" whenever they need a place to hang out. May not be true everywhere, but hiding is a good way to stay alive. Didn't mean to get ya riled up there CH.

lead

[Coyotehunter]

Males typically will not go in a den even in denning season. staying warm........... well what ever is available. I am not worked up but we have a lot of guys on the site that are reading this and I do not want them to get the wrong impression. New guys that are new to the site. no worries, I new what you meant.

[Tim Anderson]

transient coyote

Not picking on anyone but here is another word that gets miss used or miss understanding off.

I'm not a rocket scientest but you won't see many of these types of coyotes around here, most have picked out there terr. or area they want to live in so they are no longer transient coyotes.. The population is low around here compared to other parts of the country so there is'nt much of a reason to move very far except come breeding time. Also to my understanding of something I read some place that transient coyotes will not howl back when locateing or if they do they do very little of it...
From a study i read most of our coyotes stay with-in a given area and from hunting them I find this to be true, but give or take a few odd balls that do move out. Terr. lines are'nt enforced or very strict here and over lapp or don't exist..

From reading your post and what you described of your coyote when it answered your locate howls I'd say you were pretty close to its core area and thats why it was so aggressive and it may also of had some YOY hanging around..
Try locateing the same area from a different location on a dark or over-cast night and see what developes.. If you still don't get a response then I would be looking for another area close by that the coyote moved to..
I had two different groups of coyotes move on me late this summer about 2 miles, not sure if the locate sounds spooked them from the area I located in the first time or if they just moved because they wanted to.. Any way just broaden your search a little if no luck, I'm pretty sure its still around...

[leadbiscuit]

I suppose the word transient might be inappropriate in this case. I guess it depends on wether or not it started out 2 miles away or 20. I too have read that transient coyotes will often remain silent and tend to be somewhat sheepish when on the move.

Your comments on territory are pretty close to what I've seen around here. Normally they'll have a section that is primarily theirs. Some of the surrounding sections seem to be shared with their neighbors. Ocassionally I'll come across a circle of tore up dirt and snow in these shared areas that's marked.

From what I've seen over the last several years, the number of coyotes in the core area tends to remain close to the same winter after winter. Excess coyotes seem to end up living in the fringes of the core area. Often these spots have good cover and plenty of food but are heavily hunted. Those coyotes don't normally last long.

I'm curious about Coyotehunter's comment about males staying out of and away from dens. I shot a large male between slug and muzzleloader season last year. He was busy digging a hole in the side of a hill. Any idea what he was up to? I don't doubt the validity of the statement. Just curious why a male would be digging a large hole in November if he didn't want it for shelter. It was a virgin hole(giggle). Not the hole of some other animal he was trying to get into.

lead

[Coyotehunter]

interesting read. A coyote per section is not a low density of coyotes...maybe that is not what you meant. Transient typically is a non-breeding coyote moving between territories.......it does not mean that he is traveling far or not staying in the same general area..though he or she may travel great distances, not normal but they somethimes do.......maybe better stated or sometimes refered to as a beta, subordinate coyote. coyotes do not live in holes. Males generally will not go in a den. A den is a hole with pups.

[Tim Anderson]

A coyote per section is not a low density of coyotes...maybe that is not what you meant.

I think what he ment was the breeding pair will stay close to there core area and the YOY and others from a previous litter will take up residents in the ajoining sections and will cross over and into each others terr. which is what happens here..
The coyotes in the southern half of the state are scattered around through out the area in little pockets with some areas haveing a very large void, no fox and no coyotes..
You can drive down a dirt road at nite and locate them or look for sign dureing the day. You will find a small family group and then nothing for 5 miles or better. It dose'nt mean they have a very large terr., it just means they have certain areas they like to hang out in from year to year.. When the pups move out on there own most don't go very far and with some they will return to the core area of the breeding pr. on a weekly basis..

[leadbiscuit]

Most of what I wrote is from reading sign in the snow and watching for crossings under fences when there is no snow. Interpret it as you see fit. I'm not making statements, just relaying what I've seen in a relatively small radius around where I live. I don't read much about coyote behavior mainly because I suspect I'm playing with a slightly different animal around here. Just my opinion. Don't take it too seriously. These coyotes are pretty tough to call. It pisses me off and I pay close attention to how they move.

I don't think we have one coyote per section. Early in the season that's probably not far from the truth, but that doesn't last long. The two areas that I would call a core area for the two family groups closest to me I would guess are 3-4 miles center to center. Locating is hit and miss. Mostly miss. They're not very "vocal". In the dead space between family groups is normally where I see the odd fox or two. I agree with what Tim said about locating being a double edged sword.

[Coyotehunter]

A coyote per section is not a low density of coyotes...maybe that is not what you meant.

I think what he ment was the breeding pair will stay close to there core area and the YOY and others from a previous litter will take up residents in the ajoining sections and will cross over and into each others terr. which is what happens here..
The coyotes in the southern half of the state are scattered around through out the area in little pockets with some areas haveing a very large void, no fox and no coyotes..
You can drive down a dirt road at nite and locate them or look for sign dureing the day. You will find a small family group and then nothing for 5 miles or better. It dose'nt mean they have a very large terr., it just means they have certain areas they like to hang out in from year to year.. When the pups move out on there own most don't go very far and with some they will return to the core area of the breeding pr. on a weekly basis..

Yep that is ABOUT true everywhere I have ever hunted coyotes. The territory size I think you may have under estimated but the core area is what really matters in a calling situation anyways. so it may not matter to you. Trapping is different when targeting a family group were territorial boundaries are important but so be it. the young of the year do not have a territory per say..........but that is not that important either when it comes to calling them. Pups don't know what they don't know. I agree with most of what you had to say there. Its not unique to just Minnesota.