Quick Question

[barebackjack]

Another pet peeve......calling coyotes, "yotes".

[Tim Anderson]

The territory size I think you may have under estimated

Coyotehunter; Dureing the summer months I don't know how far they travel or where they go, or the size of the terr... I just know where they are by locateing them off and on most of the summer...
Now dureing the winter here its a different story, I know where most if not all of them are from locateing and tracking in the snow, remember we have mostly one mile sections here and I drive them 6-7 days a week...Every coyote I know about is documented in my little book just so I don't forget,LOL, later at home I will transfer this info to a topal map keeping track of how each coyote travels and how far. Like mentioned before there was a study done on the coyotes S-E of here and for terr. size they claimed 3-5 miles on most of the collared coyotes except for one I think, which traveled a little farther out of the area.. From keeping track of my coyotes and also hunting them the terr. size they claimed is pretty close to what I see here and most but not all only move around in one or two sections or a tadd more depending on what there is for cover in the ajoining sections...
I'd like to show you some of my mapping of terr. size and how much they move but not on an open forum..

Its not unique to just Minnesota.

I also agree. The area in S.D. were I do alot of calling the coyotes behave very simular to here as far as where the adults are and the YOY, there terr. seems to be larger but canbe due to a smaller prey source compared to here, but once I have located them they do tend to stay in the same area all winter long till mateing time.. Would be nice if the coyotes here wouldbe more terr. or defensive of there young..

[leadbiscuit]

It might be worth mentioning that things do change a little when the creeks freeze over. They'll use it for travel. Path of least resistance I suppose. I'm not sure how it figures into the topic exactly, but it does change things a bit. I know that's not unique to this area.

[Coyotehunter]

Not just you Tim but I do hate it when guys qoute studies then do not no the name of the study. Please, no offense but if your going to use a study in a discussion you should know the name of the study. Territories for all coyotes get smaller in the winter. they also get bigger during denning season. Now don't for get that I am from Eastern North dakota snd lived in Minnesota for 6 years. I do have some experience with your coyotes.

"Dureing the summer months I don't know how far they travel or where they go, or the size of the terr... I just know where they are by locateing them off and on most of the summer" a breeding pair during denning season will spend most of the time in a very small area, but the size of their territory depends on food and coyotes densities. most coyte territories in the country are about the size of a township. the shape may change but the amount of square miles stays pretty consistant. there may be some overlap with coyotes running around the edges but a typical pair with have a very defined territory. Those transients typically will not...........that is why they are called transient. Again that does not mean they will travel far, just not a breeding pair yet.

[Tim Anderson]

Territories for all coyotes get smaller in the winter. they also get bigger during denning season. Now don't for get that I am from Eastern North dakota snd lived in Minnesota for 6 years. I do have some experience with your coyotes.

If I could remember the name of the study I would have mentioned who
did it... I posted the study here a year or so ago it was done by one of the collages here in Mn., the study was conducted down by Rochester Mn. in one of the counties that has the highest coyote numbers in the state.. The purpass of the study was to find out how our coyotes here affect the deer and how much they prey on them and also on how the coyotes move around and terr. size and so on..
I have a copy of it somewhere and if its that important that you need a name I'll see if I can find it..

I agree with the statement you made for other areas, just not seeing that here.. From locateing through-out the summer the breeding pair are always found in the same section or core area. They could of perhaps run 5 miles to the other end of there terr. and then came back again with out me knowing but when I go to locate them they are still in the same spot... I locate at different times of night so I can find the den area and also find out how far they are moveing to hunt which is usually about a mile to mile and a half. Plenty of food for them so they don't have to go far.. The next closest group I located was about 5 miles away ( as the crow flys) in another drainage. There movement from checking by locateing was about the same as the other group 1-1 1/2 miles. A third group was located in a big drainage about 5 miles from the second group, this area was also a big section 1x2 miles. The coyotes stayed in this section with one going across the road to hunt another 1x1 mile section at nite then moveing back in the early mourning..

I remember you mentioning you used to live in Mn. up north correct????
I have called coyotes up in the central part of the state, as far as calling goes they behave a little more like the Dakota coyotes and are easier to call to compared to the prarie region were I live.. I'm sure the higher numbers there and more cover is what makes them a little easier to work...
Roede told me a few years back I need to locate my coyotes before I go in and call a area, that way I know they are there for sure. The thing is, I've always known where they were just did'nt know how many.. Any way I did the locate thing and then came back in the mourning to call them, and as Roede mentioned to me either they are going to come or they are going to play chicken-shit game which is what most of them do..
I had one group I decide to go after in Oct. before the deer season openned up just to see what would happen.. The YOY were still in the same spot that I located them in several times and the adults were just off to the right of them about a 1/4 mile in some willows..
I started with mouse distress at low volume then worked up the volume as time elapsed and then moved onto some other prey distress sounds. I was on stand for 1/2 hr. and nothing showed so I went to coyote vocals.. The YOY heard that and lit up with mom and pop joining in a few seconds after the sound was played, by the way this was the first time I have ever had coyotes here at home Howl back dureing the day.. I could'nt see the YOY as they stayed behind a hill the whole time but I could see the adults, they came out of the willows and pased back and fourth in front of them never moveing torwards the caller and being very vocal the whole time I was on stand.. About a hour went by so I let things quiet down and waited for the adults to disappear into the willows then I packed up and moved out.. I'll have to wait for snow and a full moon then I'll be back for the next round..LOL

[Tim Anderson]

I found the article with mentioning of the study. The Pilot study was conducted and supervised by Chris Deperno (DNR). Study was conducted in 2001. and was a spin off from a deer study. The article was in the Outdoor news March 12 2004..

[Coyotehunter]

"have called coyotes up in the central part of the state, as far as calling goes they behave a little more like the Dakota coyotes and are easier to call to compared to the prarie region were I live.. I'm sure the higher numbers there and more cover is what makes them a little easier to work..." LOL, I am sure everyones coyotes are easier than yours......do you think it might be because you constantly screw with them? Just saying..........

[Tim Anderson]

How so?

They still behave the same from when I first started calling to them with a hand call and same when I moved up to a E-call and same same with the WT.. Only diference is the WT does a better job when they do want to respond...
My locateing is done at different times, different locations and I use non-threatening howls.
Of all those coyotes I screwed around with as you say, I called in and killed 18 of them last winter at nite and one day time coyote on there terms.. I'll admit I do get one or two that will clam up or perhaps just is'nt there when I locate, can't say for sure...
When I'm out locateing I just howl to get them to howl back then I move on as quietly as I can, but there is traffic around the area all the time so they should be used to it and howling is natral for them..
Another thing is most but not all of the coyotes I mess with don't make it to see the summer, we clean up the area pretty good and what coyotes are there come fall are virgin ears to my calling and howling as most have moved in from areas I don't call or locate in...

But for arguments sake I'll just say hey your right..

[Coyotehunter]

In one statement you talk about all the pressure they get from all the hunters in the area and in the next your the only one messing with them.

TA "Now dureing the winter here its a different story, I know where most if not all of them are from locateing and tracking in the snow, remember we have mostly one mile sections here and I drive them 6-7 days a week" Seriously you are asking how so.........?? Between you and every one else chasing those coyotes around its no wonder they are spooky. You make them that way, they are not born that way.

[Tim Anderson]

The pressure starts the first day they are born. Farmers going around and planting fields and some going through there small pasture fixing fence and kicking a few coyotes and then you have the big fertalizer spreaders and sprayers hitting the area.
Once the crops are tall enough and pups old enough to leave the den some move off to the corn fields only to be kicked around again by the combines and other equipement.. Next you have the bird hunters kicking them around and out of what available cover there is. This goes on for a month and then you have the armies of deer hunters moveing through the area and also going through what cover there is and this goes on for another month.
I have'nt even scratched the surface yet other than doing a little locateing which is pretty harmless compared to the other pressure the coyotes see there first year..
Once the snow is on the ground then the guys and me get together and hunt them, we kill what we find and no educated or pressured coyote left behind, this goes on all winter, we clean up the area and start fresh again next season and so on.. I have some areas I set aside for just calling and the best time to do this is at nite but I also do it dureing the day in some areas.. I get what I can and what I can't call in then I bring the group in later in the season and we remove these as well... For some reason the coyotes like the area I live in and some of the void areas will be filled back in before spring with new coyotes I have never called to or located..
The coyotes in my area have always behaved this way since the first day they moved in back in the 80's and this behavor goes all the way down into Iowa, tuff calling down there as well since the area is very simular to here. The callers that do well down there or even up here call in areas with lots of heavey cover like river botoms, large tracks of plum brush or willows or very big sections with timber along one side or in the middle..
So to sum it all up the coyotes are pressured by more than just a few hunters come winter time..
As far as calling there are not too many that do it around my area, some have tried but gave up after a season or two.
A trapper/caller who is well known told me this one time. He said locate my coyotes so I know if they are there and then go and call to them. He said one of two things will happen, one they will come in or two they will play chicken shit and not show..
I've accepted those terms and still keep plugging away at them, even if it takes 100-200 stands before one shows itself..
These coyotes are'nt special there just different from the ones you see everyday.

[Tim Anderson]

Thought I'd throw in a P.S.


P.S.
You tell me how do you call a a coyote in with prey sounds if they are'nt hungry or interested?
How do you call a coyote in useing terr. vocals if they are not terr, or willing to defend the area they live in????


How do you call a coyote in with pup distress if they could careless about there own??

I've gotten advice or pointers from a handfull of well known callers some of it has helped a little and the rest changed nothing..

So here I am with a open ear willing to listen or learn so teach me...

[brandonmlee]

i liked all the comments on this subject... i also went out for my first time of the year a day after thanksgiving.. hunting in south western nd.. and am still a green horn to the predator hunting.. so the explaining of the terminology on your guys convo's helps out alot to a new hunter.. i called 5-10 stands in two days.. and the first call i had a coyote come withing 50 yds.. and like a rookie he spotted me first and well ya missed him.. then the rest the weekend it was very slow.. pretty warm weather... seemed like there was plenty of food in the area.. spotted a few while calling 5-800yds away and just didnt seem aggressive as i suspected they would be.. but like i said last year was my first year that got me hooked on this.. so i know nothing about transient coyotes, denning season, i believe mating season must be febuary... all i know is this farmers land i was hunting was prime land.. and plenty of it with dens everywhere.. and each night i stayed all you heard was coyotes right off the farm.. was just kind of looking for tips this time of year.. i used a jackrabbit in distress (foxpro electronic).. always had the wind in my favor.. just seemed like there were to many options for food.. lots of goose hunting in the area.. found many piles of torn up feathers in pastures and all the dogs i saw looked healthy.. not the most success but was still a blast.. best part was i brought a friend who had never sat and called before and i had one come in withing 5 min.. to bad i wasnt ready haha.. o well looking forward to learning alot this year.. thanks for all the info guys

[leadbiscuit]

Good to hear your enjoying the thread and having some luck in the field.

[Coyotehunter]

TA - When I reread this thread the thing I notice most is that even when I am agreeing with you seem to want to argue the point. Yes, your area has a lot of pressure. Yes, you personally put pressure on those coyotes, along with everyone else. its not so much that what your doing is wrong, I mean if it works for you and your satisfied with the results then its working. Pressure for coyotes is typically best defined as something that is different from the norm in their lives. The question about hunting a coyote in that area came from Leadbisquit and I may not agree with everything that you (TA) had to say on the subject but the jest of it I did. If all I was wanting to do was to go out and call in a coyote in that area, I would locate den pockets in June and hunt those areas in the fall. Locate again the morning of the hunt and with a partner work those coyote that I had located that morning. If I was having problems with them hanging up outside of my comfort zone to shoot then I would work my partner in for a closer shot whil I kept the coyotes attention with the call. With Spooky coyotes usely "less is more". I call very little when I am dealing with a shy coyote and sit on stand longer. No different than when I have to trap a particular coyote that is a nervous son-n-bitch and typically will not use any type of lure at all. Best to let a coyote do his thing and set up accordingly. Another subject but the same principle. If i planned on killing the bulk of my coyotes with a group of guys, trucks, and dogs I would do exactly what you are doing. if I was going to just call my coyotes, I would leave them alone until the day I chose to go in after them. I have some experience with pressured spooky coyotes. I grew up in a agricultural area much like you are hunting and I have hunted all over Minnesota, I lived there for a number of years. I did not think any of them were easy. Seems I have never found the easy ones, coyotes are coyotes not matter where I have hunted them. That is just my experience yours may be different.

[Tim Anderson]

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I was'nt looking for a arguement, just stateing what I do and what I go through and what I've seen or heard...

You need to understand I don't locate all my coyotes all summer and fall, just a few groups to get a better understanding of were they are and how far they are moveing and anything else I need to know about them. Alot of simularities with each group,and makes it usefull for when I go calling. I have a good idea of how the coyotes move around from following tracks and a few locates tells me where they like to hang out after deer season is over.. I have a pretty good idea whats going on now with the coyotes as far as denning areas and so on so I should'nt have to do much locateing till it comes time to call them....

Question though:: If my locateing is screwing them up why do most of them still come in to my stands, they are not comeing in when I'm calling but show up a few hours later or as much as 10 hrs ???????

I think that since the areas the coyotes live in are so small or tite with very little cover and alot of traffic makes them chicken-shit as soon as they can walk or move around, as some get a little older they do seem to be alot more aggressive only thing is they don't live long enough for me to call.. Nothing I can do about that since I share some of the hunting areas with the group...

As for the partner helping out I hunt (call) solo but I do do things as far as stand set up to give me an advantage and make the coyote feel more comfortable comeing in, like settin up along the edge of some structer such as fence lines, edge of CRP or treelines...

With Spooky coyotes usely "less is more". I call very little when I am dealing with a shy coyote and sit on stand longer.

I agree.. I've tried very little calling and most of my stands are from a half hour to a hour sometimes longer if its not to cold out..
I have found that of all the coyotes I have called in at home dureing the day or night have come in to loud and long calling with a few pauses here and there and most stands took 1/2 hr. or more.. If I know they are there I don't let up to easey...

I've been out the last few nights and only have a few places with enough snow to make a stand on, even covered some ground I don't locate but know they are around. There is'nt a road that dose'nt have tracks on or crossing it, deer hunters are really moveing them around so I may stop calling till the season gets over. I did have two answer me from a long ways but they are hanging around the area I have my traps in so I'm going to leave them for a while..later..