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.204 or .22-250 for coyotes

All you new guys who are just getting into coyote hunting, put your posts in this area. Lots of good information that would be helpful before putting up a post asking for the "how to" manual on calling.

Re: .204 or .22-250 for coyotes

Postby Optimax90 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:45 pm

I got a Ruger super blackhawk in .44mag with all the trimings that I'm trying to dump. Man I like that gun of yours. If I can dump that thing for what I want to get for it, i'm going to be looking for a .204 :wink: :wink:
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.


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Re: .204 or .22-250 for coyotes

Postby leadbiscuit » Sat Dec 04, 2010 10:43 am

Pilgrim, if youre going to tell someone(possibly inexperienced) that a 204 is an honest 500 yd coyote rifle, you should probably have some real world experience to back up theory. Maybe you do, all you have to do is say so. You answered a question with a question. Personally, I don't care what caliber someone else uses. As long as they hunt safely and ethically, they can shoot whatever they like.


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Re: .204 or .22-250 for coyotes

Postby Pilgrim » Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:56 pm

lead

I have never killed a coyote at 500 yards and would probably not attempt unless it was running off with my wallet or car keys, whatever.

Note: Excluding Opti, no one else ASKED A QUESTION although I can infer what you're getting at per CH & Bareback; CH was exposing his typical dickheadedness and I really never know what BBJ is talking about :? . Between you and me, just know that If I do ask anyone a question, I'm sincere/ no vices or hangups... And, answering questions with questions will always be admired by me! In any case, I suspect you thought I was avoiding CH's comment. I wasn't - I made that point in my prior post.

Getting back to the 400-500 range thing: Even as some .17Rem bullets, most 204 bullets are wickedly destructive at 500 yards. The coyote can't survive, and that will occur objectively and independent of whether you or I exist. I don't make the rules.

As for shooting coyotes at 4-500 yards with a very high degree of certainty, or buying a coyote rifle for 4-500 yards - That becomes a ridiculous proposition for most rifle owners no matter the caliber.


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Re: .204 or .22-250 for coyotes

Postby leadbiscuit » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:44 pm

Thanks for your reply Pilgrim.

have a good one
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Re: .204 or .22-250 for coyotes

Postby barebackjack » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:50 pm

Pilgrim wrote:
In dead coyote terms, please list the MERs for .17REM, .204, & .22-250 and summarize the objective standard you're working from. Thanks in advance.



As ive stated many times on the topic of the .204 as a "coyote gun", I dont care what the "holy" ballistic charts and tables state about the caliber. I base my opinion on the caliber off what ive seen of it in the field, on real live critters. And as far as the .204 goes, from what ive seen of it with the "lighter" bullets it was designed to throw (if you want to shoot a 50 grain bullet, get a .22 cal) it is most definitely NOT the best option out there for open country coyotes.

I have a buddy that bought into the .204 craze, after one weekend of calling I saw enough of it to decide that the caliber is not welcomed in my pickup anymore if we're calling coyotes, period.

You obviously are well versed in ballistics and physics. So you should know full well that energy is only part of the equation in how a bullet performs on a live target. Speed and energy dont mean squat if the bullet design does not utilize that energy to its maximum potential for the intended target. Energy doesn't mean jack if the bullet, and/or its pieces don't retain momentum upon contacting the intended target. Just as a high speed, high energy FMJ that zips completely through will likely do less damage than a slower, lower energy bullet designed to obturate and/or fragment properly for the intended target, the lighter .20 cal bullets are not utilizing the energy efficiently (again, from what ive personally seen). The terminal ballistics of those lighter bullets are not that great, for whatever reason. Most likely because of bullet design. (Im guessing they are very thin jacketed and light based, again, from what Ive seen, surface splashing, they expend their energy quickly and superficially, they do not retain momentum upon contact, ......this is the same reason I prefer Nosler BTs over Hornady V-Maxs in .22 cal 50ish grain, slightly beefier design).

I hear you .204 boys snortin' and fussin' over these "heavier" .20 cal bullets now. But what does zinging a 50ish grain bullet do to your ballistic charts you guys are always quoting? It's trajectory and drift start to drop down to that of a .223 (another dog of a caliber IMO), or lower. So if thats the case, whats the point of shooting the darn thing? I mean, I thought the whole allure of the caliber was its super fast, flat shooting nature? I dont know. Stuffing a 50ish grain bullet into a .204 is kind of like pulling a stock trailer full of bulls with a chevy love.

The .204 will surely kill coyotes. But so will a pellet rifle. Just because it CAN kill a coyote, does not mean its the best tool for the job. Because of this, I will continue to steer guys away from it that are purchasing a rifle specifically for coyotes. There are MUCH better options out there. And yes, shot placement has a great deal of input, but, if you can honestly say you've hit every coyote you've ever killed perfectly, well than, you obviously haven't shot that many coyotes.

I put up 14 coyotes for a guy last year that wanted to get a bunch tanned. He was so proud of his new "black rifle" in .204. Over half those coyotes were sporting multiple holes from multiple hits. He hunted alone, they were all his kills with that rifle.

Ive watched coyotes take a center punch to the chest facing the shooter at what many would call "average" or even "close" range and wheel around burning for the next township like they weren't even touched, and keep on going, and going, and going. I'm sure they died later, maybe days later. But what good is a coyote I cant recover and market?

That is what I base my opinion of the caliber on. Not what some chart or table says its supposed to do.

I shot a .17 Rem for many years when we still had fox. Yes, I even shot a few coyotes with it. But a great coyote caliber it is not. If your buying a rifle for a specific species, why hobble yourself by buying a caliber that only performs for that species under optimum circumstances? If you were buying a rifle specifically to hunt moose, would you choose a .243? Probably not.

I give the .204 credit where credit is due, just as I give, say a .223 credit where credit is due (and for the .223, you can bet its not as a deer caliber). It is a hot little caliber that excels at zipping light bullets very efficiently, and by "efficient" I mean fast and flat (but so does the .17 hmr). Unfortunatly, from what ive seen, those light little bullets just don't perform that great on coyotes. If the fox ever come back in any numbers, you can bet your butt ill own one. It would also be fun to have in a p-dog town around the first week of june. But a bona fide, serious open country coyote gun it is not.

And if the local used racks are any barometer of the .204s popularity, id say the honeymoon is over for the .204, around here, the used racks are full of .204s. (Perfect time to pick one up on the cheap in anticipation of fox making a comeback.......not holding my breath)

To answer your question though, required energy would depend on bullet construction, size, and weight. Bullet performance based on energy is not as "cut and dried" as your trying to make it out to be.


On a side note, I see the "super pro" Les Johnson ditched the .204 and is shooting a .243 now. Must of gotten sick and tired of chasing cripples, screw the sponsors! :D


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Re: .204 or .22-250 for coyotes

Postby Coyotehunter » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:16 pm

Pilgrim, glad to see that you still stand by the fact that it is easier to prove a point on line then in the field. Guys like you are a dime a dozen on sites like this. I do go through a certain amount of effort weeding them out before they get on here and do my best to tolerate their existance once they show up. I do have my limits though and I have to say I would not have expected any other response from you. Your long on facts and short on experience. Find another site to lament on your own awesomeness, I personaly have had my fill. Carry on fellas.
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Re: .204 or .22-250 for coyotes

Postby lyonch » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:03 am

BBJ - last i heard about what the "icon" less johnson was shooting, i was being told it is a 6mm - 06. I could be wrong, but that's just what i heard. For those that dont know what it is, its a 30-06 casing necked down to a 6mm bullet.

I have said this a million times about guys shooting lighter calibers, "you can't skin whats still running away".
Chris Lyon


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My heart belongs to my family,
BUT MY SOUL BELONGS TO THE COYOTES!!!


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Re: .204 or .22-250 for coyotes

Postby lyonch » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:04 am

I need to make a correction to the post above (i think). The 6mm-06 might be a 25-06 casing necked to a 6mm bullet. The 25-06 caliber just completely slipped my mind when i made my last post. the downfall i see to that round, is that a long action is required for that type of load. If someone can correct me, please do so.
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Re: .204 or .22-250 for coyotes

Postby barebackjack » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:07 am

lyonch wrote:BBJ - last i heard about what the "icon" less johnson was shooting, i was being told it is a 6mm - 06. I could be wrong, but that's just what i heard. For those that dont know what it is, its a 30-06 casing necked down to a 6mm bullet.

I have said this a million times about guys shooting lighter calibers, "you can't skin whats still running away".




That may very well be.

I caught a few of his new episodes here recently and he's pluggin a .243. I know last year he was pluggin the .204.

Thats my motto too. It takes me an extra 10 seconds to sew an extra inch of pelt, it sometimes takes me an hour or more to track down a cripple across a snowed in pasture. And I cant do crap with one that gets away with a hole in it.


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Re: .204 or .22-250 for coyotes

Postby ducksmuggler » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:06 am

I have a 204.... and punch paper with it.... shoot a 22-250... and my next gun will be a 243


my brother has always shot 243s and I wanted to be diff. but some times change isn't good...
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Re: .204 or .22-250 for coyotes

Postby jaybic » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:04 pm

I am all but ignorant on the subject so I will just keep shooting my 22-250. Funniest thing tho, this arguement never surfaces about a 22-250. No one ever post the question "is a 22-250 enough gun for coyotes?" I wonder why that is?

I do kinda start to feel a 22-6 coming on tho! :D

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Re: .204 or .22-250 for coyotes

Postby leadbiscuit » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:12 pm

Be careful with those wildcats Jaybic. They're a tough habit to kick.... It's a slippery slope!

have a good one
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Re: .204 or .22-250 for coyotes

Postby Yote » Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:51 pm

Well I think the .204 is out, so .22-250 or .243, which one would be more fur friendly. If I go custom rifle how about a .22-250 improved with 52 gr bullets as far as fur friendly? Thanks in advance.


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Re: .204 or .22-250 for coyotes

Postby Coyotehunter » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:06 pm

I do have a .22-.250 AI shooting the 52 gr. Sierra BTHP bullet. I use it for a back up gun so I would not say I have a ton of dogs under my belt with it to say fur friendly or not...... very accurate, fun to shoot, shilen barrel and trigger, leupold 4x12 BDC knob............I did shoot this gun a lot with the factory rem. heavy barrel and that bullet was very easy on the fur. I have shot a bunch of prairie dogs with it and I love to watch them explode so I am shooting a little on the fast side now. pretty high elevation here so I am still not getting in pressure signs and running around 3900 fps.
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Re: .204 or .22-250 for coyotes

Postby lyonch » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:45 am

Yote wrote:Well I think the .204 is out, so .22-250 or .243, which one would be more fur friendly. If I go custom rifle how about a .22-250 improved with 52 gr bullets as far as fur friendly? Thanks in advance.



I shoot the .22-250 myself and am shooting lapua brass with a 55 grain sierra spitzer boat tail bullet being pushed by 37.5 grains of powder at 3,800 fps. I dont have a ton of coyotes under this round, but i do not remeber any massive holes from this load. It dont matter what bullet you shoot, if you spine a coyote, you will have a mess on your hands. I usually have a small entrance and small exit with a DRT coyote. The bullet is built for hunting and has a thicker jacket behind it, so you wont find that ecessive explosiveness the Vmax rounds have and bullet splash. With all that being said, the .243 is also an excellent round for coyotes. I would put the two in a hat, and just choose one.
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