Take a kid...

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Coyotehunter
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Re: Take a kid...

Post by Coyotehunter »

I have had some great luck woth the dogs this year in July but it was mostly stuff off of the sheep aways. we come in with the plane hard in Mar and Apr, shot 92 adults and a bunch of loaded females. not sure about Apr. but Mar I think it was 82 pups on loaded females. Makes the may, jun calling tough. LOL July I was able to get into some of the rough stuff south of town and got into some older coyotes that did not want to see a dog. had one run right into us as we were walking out to the stand location. truck in full view. she watched us at a 1/4 mile then charged right in. tall grass no shot. set up up the drainage aways and called in her and 2 more. got her shot but the rest.......well rocks and cedar make it real tough. first time I seen that female was at roughly 10-15 yards. she about ran my son over. maybe 10' from him when she turned. I finally got her shot. anyways.......the coyotes on the sheep just don't live long enough to get attached to the location. I have had pups in full site and have the adults just run off at the site of the dogs. I have half of 1 county and only work about 1/3 of that. on the same pastures day after day. every day on sheep. I just do not have a lot of old coyotes on the sheep grounds. I have not seen or heard a pup in weeks. they are there but keep a pretty low profile. been pounding out traps and M44's the past 2 weeks.
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RandyRoede
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Re: Take a kid...

Post by RandyRoede »

Brad and Jamie, what did you see for litter sizes???

This is the third year in a row I am seeing a 2 pup above average in my area.

Jamie, the beat goes on. I am guessing it's about market time there and you and brad will see exactly how you both did. What would be a respective or acceptable loss % to these guys. 0% I am sure!!!!!!!
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bucksnbears
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Re: Take a kid...

Post by bucksnbears »

hey guy's, your putting allot of great advice and "meat" into this post. keep it up. :wink: i've learned allot today just in the last couple of post's 8)
the more food you have in your mouth at one time, the better you can taste it!!!
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Re: Take a kid...

Post by Coyotehunter »

yeah 0 losses would be nice. The coyotes are blamed for everything though. The eagles and bobcats take there share as well. On shed lambs I see as high as 140% and range lambs anything over 90% is exceptable. The problem is that you rarely know the age of your herd which can effect the average on the lamb crop. I had one rancher just last week tell me he was 106% on range lambs, which a real good number. I have seen my average litter size drop by 2 pups in the past 2 years. We had been at 8 now we are at 6. I do think it has more to do with the average age of our breeding adults but are rabbit population crashed 2 years ago as well. Which from talking with our local warden translates in a poor doe/fawn antelope reqruitment this spring north of town. I did not get the numbers but he said he was seeing a big drop in fawn numbers since last spring 08'. We also had several late storms this spring with lots of snow. Our cats are really moving as well.

Randy what are you seeing for grasshoppers this year? We have been completely over run in some areas. Lots of moisture but lots of grasshoppers mowing down the grass. I have been killing coyotes full of grasshoppers.
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RandyRoede
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Re: Take a kid...

Post by RandyRoede »

Jamie, hoppers as bad as anyone has seen to the NW of Pierre, and straight north of Pierre on the east side of the river they are thick. Yep, been seeing lots of grasshoppers in coyote scat. Helped with a lake survey the other day, pulling gill nets and found catfish just full of grasshoppers also. Pastures look like a rotary mower went thru them, nothing but stalks and stems. Always something, finally get rain and here are the hoppers.

Litter sizes sure vary. I've been in that 6-7 average three years now. Lots of young females showing 8-10, the guy up north of here is seeing an increase also. I just hope we pull out of this mange deal, I want to see fluffy healthy coyotes!!! Lots of them where they will cause very few problems, got to have a dream don't ya!! :lol:
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Re: Take a kid...

Post by Coyotehunter »

your seeing young females with litters that size.........is that the norm? do you think it has more to do with the food in regards to litter size...I have made both arguements and to this day I could not say for certain. I just have had very few coyotes (2 to be exact) that where shot that had an empty stomach. I just do not see coyotes go hungry.
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RandyRoede
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Re: Take a kid...

Post by RandyRoede »

Jamie, no it wasn't the norm til about 3 years ago. Used to be these young coyotes if bred at all would shoe 2-4 pups. I have read these same studies and seems to me if you read enough studies about the same things you will be totally confused. Just to many variables from parts of the country to apply it in other areas. I can only make assumptions about what i see in my area, may be right may be wrong.

My assumptions are.

1. About the same timeframe, 3 years ago, the mange, parvo, distemper hit the hardest. Thus making numbers very low of healthy coyotes.

2. Our rabbit population and all other prey species populations are thriving. I consider this to be more benefical to survival of born pups vs. making bigger litter sizes during breeding season. A healthier female and male during breeding time does make for bigger litters but the effect of all born to survive because of ample food after birth I consider a bigger factor. Debateable??

The only hungry coyotes I see are sick mangey ones!!!

3. Low density allows for more females to be bred, I seem to be finding less and less dry females. My theory is that territorial lines are not as strictly held and some overlaping is tolerated with the low numbers and the abundance of food. This is what i think to be the key to a quick recovery in the numbers of the coyote population in an existing area, much more than litter sizes.

You tend to see more groups of coyotes staying together,or loosely together. Not such a harsh dispersal come Oct. Like it used to be. There is more room and groceries vs. fighting over the last crumb in the cupboard.

With this being said our numbers should be climbing faster than they are??? I think we have some lingering effects of the unhealthy population although gone still lingering, parvo in the soil taking pups after they whelp, something is holding them back, eventually their immune system will become stronger etc, and they will but we are in a slightly elevated but in a holding pattern population wise.

My sons say I need to take 2-3 years off so we can find them like we used to, they notice the reduction everytime they hunt with me. Old stories of remember when we would locate from here and here them everywhere. Although I have done control mother nature has done more damage than I could ever hope to in over 2 million acres. They'll be back!!

If there is ever and area that can and will be effected by control, the areas of big sheep numbers are it. No mercy is given to these areas like you and brad work. Not a place a recreational caller should go!!!

The job of and ADC control guy may sound great, don't kid yourself, it is very self regulating, you have to produce or they, the producers, will be calling for the next guy. They won't wait to long for you to catch on!! Reputation will make or break you in this line of work. News spreads fast!! You are a working part of every producers operation. I luv every minute of it!!! but your only as good as your last kill and it only last a little while.
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Prairie Ghost
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Re: Take a kid...

Post by Prairie Ghost »

I'm seeing the opposite Randy.

Mange is starting to hit here real bad! The rabbit population has all but dissapeared compared to a few years ago. Spring of 07 to now the average litter (loaded and born) has gone down by a little over one juvenile per litter.

Coyote numbers are down due some to our program finally getting things worked out but mostly mother nature doing her part.

I have looked into this more closely because i'm am really intersested in the age vs prey base discussion so i'm tring to look into and keep better records. The thing is where we do most of the spring work is on a sheep numbers so for the most part they are all young females.

16 coyotes this time of year in three outings is real good wish i could get them to work like that!!!! my dogs are starting to wonder if i know what i'm doing with no coyotes coming in to wrestle. Hopefully will get into a few more before fall up in the hills.

You are only as good as your last kill is exactly right they forget what you did for them last spring if they are getting eaten on this spring.

90% and everyone seems to stay happy on range lambing have had them below that but it was mostly due to a un cooperating neighbor.

I always like to see 100-110% at docking and work from there but i don't have the numbers of sheep that coyotehunter has so i can keep a little closer eye on mine.

Funny how fast ranchers forget about spring storms during lambing!
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LeviM
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Re: Take a kid...

Post by LeviM »

Good posts guys, theres alot of info there to digest, Thats why you guys do this for a living!
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lyonch
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Re: Take a kid...

Post by lyonch »

RandyRoede wrote:The job of and ADC control guy may sound great, don't kid yourself, it is very self regulating, you have to produce or they, the producers, will be calling for the next guy. They won't wait to long for you to catch on!! Reputation will make or break you in this line of work. News spreads fast!! You are a working part of every producers operation. I luv every minute of it!!! but your only as good as your last kill and it only last a little while.
There is a lot of truth to that statement randy!! I think a lot of people think the job is just gravy work and nothing else. Well from what little i have seen and heard from most of you ADC guys this is what i have gathered and put together. You work virtually 7 days a week. Most days are before sunrise to after sunset. You are checking for different diseases constantly while gutting and checking for scars on the tubes and checking what they have been eating to make sure you got the dog that has been feeding on the livestock. When it storms (snow or rain) you are in your garage putting snares together, putting m44's together, and tweaking traps. They also dont realize the phone calls you get at 9 pm and a farmer is all upset becuase he just lost a bunch of lambs and now you need to get up and go locate so that when morning comes you have a damn good idea where he/she is at. You also need to put up with all of the polotical B.S. that comes with the job. you get paid very little for the amazing work you do. Oh and last but not least you try to find time to spend with your family to make sure that you still have your sanity :wink: My hats off to you boys who do this work!! Keep up the great work and the great posts. There is more info to digest from this original post by daryl to last post on this topic by only reading it once 8)
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Prairie Ghost
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Re: Take a kid...

Post by Prairie Ghost »

By God chris you did a pretty fair job. Thanks for the kind words.

Don't get me wrong i LOVE my job but there is a lot of people out there that believe that all we do is drive around and shoot at coyotes all day.
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RandyRoede
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Re: Take a kid...

Post by RandyRoede »

Chris, thank you!!

Brad. amen brother!!
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Daryl
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Re: Take a kid...

Post by Daryl »

Nope I don't beleive it. I was in SD and all Randy did was drive around and shoot at coyotes. :lol:
Oh but he does have a fridge in the garage that will just about take you down when you open it :P
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Re: Take a kid...

Post by 1Shooter »

Great pictures Daryl! Wish I could get some hunting in like that. I've only been able to bag one so far this year but am hoping to up that number exponentially :wink: My fiance was with me when I got my first coyote, so I'm glad to hear that your wife hunts with you too! That's great as well that your daughter wants to go out with you when you hunt. Keep up the good work!
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Coyotehunter
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Re: Take a kid...

Post by Coyotehunter »

Daryl wrote:Nope I don't beleive it. I was in SD and all Randy did was drive around and shoot at coyotes. :lol:
Oh but he does have a fridge in the garage that will just about take you down when you open it :P
LOL
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