Coyote Bounty Systems.

[DustyC]

I was wondering what every one thought about coyote bounty programs? Our county predator board put on a bounty last year for the summer and this year, for some ignarant reason they changed it to a winter bounty. The program was set up by a group of people that consisted of livestock producers and sportsman. We all agreed that since the livestock producers are the ones that actually pay for the predator board that it would be ste up in the spring and summer witch is the most efficient time of the year for control work. The goal was to get people out killing coyotes all year. I myself thought it was a great deal because most people around here refuse tohunt them in the summer and it leaves it to some guys that kind of know what they are doing and can actually help a little bit.
My questions to you guys are as follows:
What is tour general opinion on bounties?
When would you put them on?
How would you decide who should have the greater influence on the program? Livestock producer or sportsman?

Any other questions, information or comments would be greatly appreciated.

[lyonch]

Great post Dusty!!! You should hopefully get a lot of responses out of this one. I look at a bounty two different ways. From a sportsman perspective, i would prefer to have the bounty in the fall/winter months to make my pelt and time more profitable when i am out and about. From a ranchers perspective i would prefer to see the bounty take effect late season, starting approximately Februaury, since this is when some ranchers start calving (at least where i am at in minnesota to prevent scours) and go through the summer months. If pups were included in the bounty, it should really encourage more people to do some den work since a den could produce two to eight times the bounty. It would be like hitting a small pot of gold. Now that i have covered the good side of the bounty, lets take snowmobile fanatics and people with there trucks and a disrespectful attitude. These are the folks that will not get off there ass. This is where the bounty will take these guys to the next level and get even more daring and reckless because they see a dollar sign as they hit the throttle.

Taking all that into consideration, i would personally place the bouny into effect year arroud if possible. If the ranchers are willing to put there money on the line and faith into us sportsmen then it should be fully benefiting the rancher. If the sportsman are what pay for the bounty, then it should take effect when it maximize there time out in the field. If the program is paid for by both, but intended to help the rancher, then i would place the boutny in effect approximately one month before calving season and let it go through the summer months and into the beginning of fall. The price of the bounty can really effect all this too. If you put a dollar bill on a set of ears, or a tail, then it's not even worth it IMO. If you put a 100 dollar bill on a pair of ears, or a tail, you will see everyone possible out there trying to kill coyotes and it will hurt more than help. It seems to me the 20-30 dollars per pair of ears, or a tail whichever system you go with, seems to be more than fair and get people out there.

I hope other people who have a bounty in there area comment on this topic. It just seems to me a bounty can bring out extremes in people, but not all extremes are bad either

[bucksnbears]

i agree Chris!!! if the bunty gestto large, everyone and their brother will be out doing "whatever" possible to get the cash. keep the bounty at a smaller amount and it will hopefully cut out most of the riff-raff. i remember in the early 80's when a prime fox was worth 80.00. snowmobile tracks were down every bit of cover

[xdeano]

I honestly don't think that bounties work as well as most people think they do. For several reasons. It's a little thing called source to sink. What i mean by this is, if you create a void in the population even on a large scale, the source, being the counties next to the sink (the county with the bounty), will have an influx of coyotes due to population densities and prey density. When you take all the natural predators from an area the prey species (rabbits, deer, fawns, mice, porcupines, skunks, coons, etc) number is going to grow, to the point that there is an abundance of food just walking around waiting for a coyote to snatch it up.

When this prey density comes into play it will draw coyotes into the sink from the source like flies on stink. The abundance of prey will also allow for larger litter sizes because of food and lack of other competition. So that first year that the bounty were to get cut off due to funding, you'll start seeing younger coyotes move in and have a litter of 8 to 12 and now you have trouble again.

While the bounty is going on you're going to get a lot of wise dogs, you won't be able to get within a mile of them with a vehicle or sound of a vehicle. Calling is going to suck. Trappers will have equipment stolen. But you'll also have a lot of dead coyotes.

I'm not going to say which time of the season that i'd rather people out calling coyotes or chasing them.

xdeano

[LeviM]

my opinion a bounty would hurt more than help. Like mentioned every fair weather hunter will be out throwing lead, calling from truck tops, and making it almost impossible to call in coyotes. I perfer to keep those yahoos at home, its aleady bad enough. If your looking for money, skin stretch and put up your coyotes and bring them to the fur buyer.

[lyonch]

I would like to see what Jamie says about this, because he has a bounty in his county and i think has for a long time. He would be the one to let you know how it has effected the area

[EO caller]

I'm against the bounty for most the reasons stated here, and the other problem is that you have guys bringing in coyotes from out of the county and letting the residents of that county collect the bounty for them. Thats not helping the county with the bounty out at all. It just attracts lead flingers. If they set up with a few of the guys that are normally out doing it it would nice to help pay for gas but other than that the county should funnel the money towards the county trapper to help him use more resourses ex. airplane and helicopters. The Government Trapper's job is a thankless one and to many jackasses looking for 10$ a set of ears doesn't help him out. Just sayin.

[barebackjack]

Im surprised this hasn't been mentioned much yet, EO nailed the biggest problem with bounty systems, the timeless tactic of killing animals outside a bounty region only to check them in for a bounty in an eligible area.

Lots of bounty programs have lost LOTS of money in this fashion. Very tough to enforce.

I think that for the most part, bounties are an outdated and ineffective method of controlling problem populations.

I say this because, putting a $20 bill on the head of a coyote is only going to bring more and more idiots out of the woodwork. We all know, five guys that know what they are doing will kill far more than 50 of said idiots. But, putting 50 more idiots out after em makes it a lot harder for the five guys that know what they're doing.

[DustyC]

Heres a little more info on our bounty program. The bounty price is $25. You are not allowed to just bring in the ears. You must show a whole coyote to the board members that check them in.
I understand alot of the negativity about the bounty that you guys are saying. We did have a couple boardf memebers that were a little lenient to there friends. To my knowledge, that is the only trouble that we had. I think that when ever you make a set of rules, you will always find someone that knows a way to cheat them. You just have to hope that people will be honest.
I also agree with Levi on the matter of putting up the fur. I put up everything I catch or shoot. I agree that that it should never be used during fur season. All fur trappers know, that you hit the pups hard and heavy than once the easy ones are cleaned up, on to the next litter. At least thats the way it should be. I tend to stay around a little longer and try to catch the adults just because I am in the cow business. You never get the old killin' coyotes while fur trapping.
Barebackjack made a couple points that I will answer as best as I can to help people understand. The money that is allocated for the bounty, is not able to go to the trappers. The bounty is supported bi the county commissioners. Our trappers are paid by the predator board. I agree that they are under paid and are the unsung heroes, but so am I. Every calf I lose costs me about $500. If its a heifer calf the price is alot greater due to the fact that she could have produced up to 10-12 calves in alifetime. You do the math on that and it comes out to roughly $6000 per calf. My profit margin is very slim and it doesn't take much to ruin my year. that is why the bounty helps me in more ways than one. I also understand the point about bringing out every yahoo with a gun and making coyotes hard to call. I would honestly hate to think that I was doing anything to make Dave and Tracy's job nay harder, but you also have to remnember that they are the proffessionals and can usually handle the problem.I feel like we have 2 of the best in the business but they are also restricted by trap and other laws that make it difficult for them to run a trap line as far out as I am. 72 hour trap check laws make the only feesible equipment snares and m-44's witch everyone knows does not perform as well as traps in the summer.
I would alsolike to say that I volunteer for Wildlife Services all spring, summer and fall.That is all volunteer. They do not supply me with any gear or supplies to help out. I really don't care about that but it was nice that I could afford to buy some fuel and pay for my lure and pocket a little bit of money.
Thanks to everyone posting, and keep em coming. I would like to get as many opinions as possible

[barebackjack]

I just personally think that in many circumstances, a county would be better off hiring, or contracting with a few guys that know what they're doing, rather than putting a bounty on and letting a bunch of morons in that have no idea what they're doing.

I think in most cases, the problem will be better solved with the aforementioned method.

I had a lady down where I bowhunt lose both of her yapper dogs a few years back. She swore up and down a cat did it, but for that area, it was a no-brainer that coyotes were the culprit.
For starters, she was in a horrible spot, killing a dog there was an extremely short term fix as there are just so many in that area more than willing to move into, and looking for new territories.
This is also an area that sees a lot of human activity. Its relatively close to some well populated areas, lots of bird hunters, deer hunters, and in recent years, coyote "callers". Lots of hunting pressure.

Anyway, she let every Tom, Dick, and Harry in to "kill" those coyotes. Seven groups of guys called and called (and god knows what else) through December and most of January and killed a SINGLE coyote. She called me to ask if id give it a go as she was still seeing tracks in her yard in the mornings, etc. I asked her a few questions and as soon as she told me how many guys had been in that area I cringed. First thing I told her was to not let anyone else in for a while.
Sure enough, calling a coyote into rifle range in that area took an act of god.

Had she called me first, I could have worked the area more methodically, and im not saying I could have killed all the coyotes in that area, but I would have put a hell of a lot bigger dent in the local population than one.

That spring I put a dirthole set on each corner of the home place. I told her to just walk out in my pickup tracks every day and check them. Dont poke around, just look. Call me if we catch something. First night we had a double, a day later a single.
The following year I went into that same area and killed 4 in one morning. I made a point of pulling into her yard and chatting that morning. Needless to say, I have free rein on that land now. I know its a continuous battle to keep numbers down in that immediate area. But, I have it all to myself now when it comes to coyotes, and keeping numbers down with light effort is a possibility because of that.

Not to mention the bowhunting there is PHENOMENAL!!!

[lyonch]

Another thing that needs to be taken into consideration, is the population density of the county and surrounding areas. Would a bounty system work in Fargo, ND i highly doubt it because of the exact reasons Barebackjack mentioned. In DuctyC area it seems as though towns are very few and far between, and the main population is ranchers. People would have to travel quite a ways to try and get the $25 dollar bounty.

[DustyC]

Chris, you are right about the population. I live 67 miles from the closest town of any size. I guess I am a little bias because it has worked well for me. There were onlt six of us that bountied any coyotes last year. There were only v bounties that didn't come from me or my two friends that came out and worked them all summer. We were the only 'morons' that would take the time to do it. They came out because I asked them too. (they are both retired ADC guys with decent dogs). Once again I will say that the ten thousand dollars for the bounty was given to the predator board for the soul purpose of the bounty. It can not be used for any thing else. Also, most of the other morons have other things besides coyotes on there minds. You never saw a single person out calling all summer. They were all fishing or scouting for elk or deer haunts. My point is that it really isn't worth it to these guys that don't have dogs or know how to den to come out here for one or two coyotes a day.
I will also add that the only time the board had trouble was when they let the bounty run over into fur season.
One new rule is that you must show proof of where you killed the coyote by showing a permission slip or voucher from the rancher where you killed the dog
Keep em' coming guys' this is getting good.
If your area had a bounty what rules would you want to see in place?

[EO caller]

Sounds like your county has it dailed in Dusty. Were I'm from the bounty's are small and the coyotes are rarely from the problem area's. It drives our government trapper nuts.

[LeviM]

I can see where it would very helpfull in WY, MT less populated areas. The whole bounty system is to help ranchers. Maybe Jamie and Brad can go into more detail on how it effects their job.

[Prairie Ghost]

Too much room for the croocked ones. One of the counties out here had a bounty and a man with an airplane that knew what he was doing bankrupt them in short order it took them three years to pay him off. I believe the county is way better off contracting with a certain trapper or a few individuals to put their money towards. Most counties out here have a goverment trapper if they think that need more than that i think they need to contract a fur trapper to do some work in the summer months to do some good. I just have seen where it brings people from out of state or out of county with no ethics on where they go to make another 20 dollars.

However i do believe they are way more effective in the lesser populated areas of WY, MT, ND, UT and such because it is mostly ranchers and people out helping ranchers that are collecting the bounty.