Conservation........

Post by **Coyotehunter** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:41 am

tough to try and predict what a coyote will do. There is always exceptions. I have heard of some crazy things over the years.

Post by **Pure Predator** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:46 pm

I have 4 acres of woods that I just last weekend started to clear off a small area to build a home on... There is already a natural hole in the forest ceiling where stickers and poison ivy have taken over. As I was pushing the weeds and other forest floor debris into a burn pile in the middle I got the feeling I was being watched... I looked up over the bucket of the back-hoe and low and behold there was a red fox watching me destroy his or her (perfect mousing grounds). She actually made 4 other appearances Sunday, once as My wife, brought lunch to me... I beleive that she has a den with pups right off the clearing... Looks like a ground hog den, but there isnt a mound of dirt anywhere around the holes, just two perfect holes straight down into the ground... I will try to get some pictures, I have been keeping my eye out for fresh road kill rabbits, to drop by the holes.... just incase there are pups down there I have stopped clearing anymore ground until the pups are older.... or evidence they have moved on because of the disturbance...

Mike

Post by **shooter93** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:40 pm

coyotes are a survior, they dont need help on managment, the more you kill the more they have, us people hunting coyotes dont put a dent in them, if the rabbits have a good year the coyotes explode, if the the rabbits die off the coyotes will have 2 or 3 pups v.s. 6, if you want to manage the coyotes on your land then you need to manage the game that they eat, coyotes will feed off anything including juniper berrys, coyotes dont need managed in that aspect of building a den for them, here in cali we cant use leg hold traps so now and fur prices are low, now the antelope and the mule deer are low, beside the large amount of lions we have with no hunting season

Post by **Coyotehunter** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:42 am

shooter93 wrote:they will have 2 or 3 pups v.s. 6,

I have not seen or heard of any studies that would support that statement, though I do hear it made a lot. Young coyotes have small litters, with increased litter size with age. I have not seen any studies that support the notion that an increase prey base increases the number of pups in the hole. I have talked with several biologist on this subject including Steve Allen this past winter and can not find anything to support that belief. I know this is a popular statement and one I have made myself over the years as well, so I am not trying to be just argumentative. I just have not found anything that would substantiate that common misconception. The average is well documented to be about 5.5 pups per coyote but the reality is that you have some coyotes having 2-3 and others having 8-10. Age seems to be the most contributing factor to litter size.

Post by **Prairie Ghost** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:48 am

I have read and talked to biologists that said that they didn't believe in it or at least hadn't seen it in their studies. I did read where a biologist had a theory that the lower the COYOTE density the larger the litters but had limited data to prove it. I think it might have been crabtree but i can't be 100% sure. I would look it up but Jamie has my book!

Post by **LeviM** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:09 am

Jamie, Brad-

thats really intresting because I was always led to believe that coyotes can adjust the amount of pups they have. Thanks for the info guys, Thats cool to know that they have an average liter size no matter what.

Post by **shooter93** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:34 pm

i got most my data from a goverment trapper of 50+ years that used everything they had to use and he never hated the coyote he studied them, but prey has alot to do with the amount of coyotes in a area and how many they can hold, if the prey is not there the coyotes(pair or pack) will chase off others, a pair will kick a$$ on any one that comes in there area, and we do have the travelers or nomads, but most of all i am saying is a man made den isnt what you need to do.

if you feel somthing is watchen you better look around

Post by **Coyotehunter** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:09 pm

shooter93 wrote: but prey has alot to do with the amount of coyotes in a area and how many they can hold, if the prey is not there the coyotes(pair or pack) will chase off others, a pair will kick a$$ on any one that comes in there area, and we do have the travelers or nomads, but most of all i am saying is a man made den isnt what you need to do.

Yep, I would agree with that. I was speaking only on the topic of litter size as it relates to the amount of food available. I believe they are completely independent of one another.

Post by **shooter93** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:24 am

the biologists ive talk to are not always right and only give a certain amount of info they want, here we have the gray wolf moving in, but they will not acept it unless they have Dna from a hair sample, not a 100 mile awy in Oregon they have positive dna, some of most expertiance people of the coyote arent biologists, but the hunters because we live and breath coyote hunting, but the age of the coyote seems like a a good reason for size of litter and genes probably has something to do with to

Post by **Pure Predator** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:46 am

Excuse me if I am wrong...
But Coyotes being of the k-9 family, and talking to many dog breeders... They will breed bitches on multiple days to ensure multiple pups, as the unfertiliezed eggs drop into the ueterus on differant days... Thus needing multiple inter course sessions to fertilize eggs.... With this in mind... If I was a smart momma coyote.... and there was plenty of game to hunt and food readily avaliable... I think I would ensure the prosperity of my species I would, mate, (for a lack of a better term) as much as I felt able to support...

I maybe wrong with this theroy, but as always excuse me for my ignorance....

anyway...

Mike

Post by **shooter93** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:16 am

mike, coyote are a life time pair, but when you have a female in heat there will be other dogs (males) he protects the wife as you may see, but again they are there waiting for the action, he goes hunting, or he goes to the coyote heaven, he will protect his mate, i have called in 9 at one time, i didnt call in the males i called in the bitch dog they follow the female dont that sound like us poor men

Post by **Tim Anderson** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:51 am

Coyotes can takecare of them selves when it comes to dens. The coyotes can have up to a half a dozen dens or more. They pick the den they are going to use for the year and will start to clean them out in a week or two. if there is too much disturbance around a den they will move the pups to one of the others. Coyotes will use culverts some times, but for the most part they will have dens. The culverts are used to hide from hunters or to get out of the badd weather mostly..
Makeing man made dens for coyotes would just be a waiste of time, the coons and skunks mite like to use them though..

Post by **Coyotehunter** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:51 pm

ok I am getting lost. Females having male protectors? Hunters knowing more than biologists? Mate for Life? Fertilizing as many eggs as food availability? WOW, I do not know what to say.

Post by **LeviM** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:34 am

Yeah there is a lot of misleading information there!!

Post by **Prairie Ghost** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:58 am

I would like to see the quote or at least the credit given for where this information is coming from so i can look into it becasue i think there is a lot of jumping to a conclusion going on

Coyotehunter.net

Conservation........

a little off the subject

good info

let me add alittle here....