Coyotes Vs Red Fox

[bucksnbears]

i've listened to alot of different reasons why fox declined in population and i still dont know why althoughi think the coyote eredicating fox is a bit of a streach.i've hunted fox hard since the early 80's when prices were high and every one with a snowmobile was out after them and yet there was always good # the next year. when the population crashed it happend in about a 2 year period of time. in 1991-or 2. i shot 167 fox and it was common to go out and see 30 40 per day. i didnt even call back then. all spot n stalk the best day was 54 seen. granted, this was over 100 mile days. the next year i shot 80+ the next 30+ after that it was lucky to see 10 a day. the fox were in terrible shape mange wise. 8 out of 10. we still had no coyotes around would maybe see 1-2 a year. the coyotes are really coming on strong as i see them usally each day outthe last couple years. the fox # are coming back also and i've been seeing both spiecies in the same section sometimes laying within 300 yards of each other. i used to blame the coyotes for low fox #s but now i think its more about mange. i,ve shot 20-25 fox this year and none have had any sign of mange. some coyotes have some bald spots but none like were shot years back.god, some of them were gross.

[shooter93]

mange is from flea as i am told, we go through different cycles, just like the rabbit or the mouse, same as said before, it is food and reaction to a area, just like parvo for dogs and maybe the other dogs

[Coyotehunter]

Mange is not fleas. It is a skin mite.

coyotes will displace fox, that is just a fact. they take over the prime habitat and force fox into the fringes. The wolves do the same to the coyotes, lots of studies done on this in yellowstone after the wolves were reintroduced.

[Tim Anderson]

in 1991-or 2. i shot 167 fox and it was common to go out and see 30 40 per day. i didnt even call back then. all spot n stalk the best day was 54 seen. granted, this was over 100 mile days. the next year i shot 80+ the next 30+ after that it was lucky to see 10 a day.

Part of youre answer is right there..

[Prairie Ghost]

Great topic guys and good posts.

I believe mange was obviously the main factor in the population decline in red fox. In the early nineties a good day of spotting sleeping fox was 25 if it was real cold and sunny. Mange hit after a year or two of those kind of numbers (nature taking its course). The fox have tried and in some places started to make a comeback but i agree with the statements that the coyotes kick them out of the good habitat for denning like i've stated before and you have fox dens right off of the road with every tom dick and harry taking a pot shot at them until they move or are all dead. Coyotes will definetly kill a fox and especially the pups but the run over pups, shot pups and eagle eaten pups have a larger effect then the coyotes due to bad location of dens and territories.

[Pilgrim]

I'm no expert/ have nothing to contribute except explanations by friends who hunted fox in western MN throughout the 80s & 90s.

Is CRP enrollment (Conservation Reserve Program-- 1985 Farm Bill) another variable?

Last 10 years are nothing like it used to be as far as acres in western MN or southern and western IOWA.

[Tim Anderson]

The CRP program is going strong in my area, the only down side is the land is being sold to hunters from other parts of the state and they don't have a understanding that pred.'s need tobe kept under control..Some won't allow others to come in and remove certain Var... and they think they can control them thereselves..LOL

Just have to wait them out and they will call, "They always do" LOL

[shooter93]

i am know expert on mange, sorry for the intro of that fact, im from cal very very close to neveda, we have no mange hereand i hope we dont get, this morning i called in 2 coyotes and killled one of the biggest i ever killed, we dont have fleas here and i wonder does it mean we will not get mange

[Prairie Ghost]

I would say with about 99.9% certainty that you DO have fleas in CA. I believe you have had mange in areas also. I think that is where the big tale of Delta Waterfowl introducing it in the population came from. Correct me if i'm wrong but i think you do have documented cases of mange in either your coyote or fox population. It is moving in all directions now so if you don't have much of it right now you most likely will sooner or later.

So how big was that coyote?

[Tim Anderson]

I would say with about 99.9% certainty that you DO have fleas in CA

Yep...
The coyotes in western wyoming and also Az have fleas so i would also say that Cal. has them to.
Some fleas from other areas canbe mean as hell, like S.D. for example, there fleas have a hell of a bite to them and they don't quit..

[shooter93]

people think cali is all beaches and hot weather like baja. i bet this coyote was over 40 lbs easy, i dont know by weight, i just know he was big.ill have to down load the pics for you people

[shooter93]

hey Tim we dont have fleas here but down in the valley they are real bad, ill send them your way

[Coyotehunter]

LOL

[papapete]

This is a great read guys.

I was told once that mange runs in a 60 year cycle. It is just one of those things that just needs to run its course. If you think about it, When the mange was really bad back in the 90's, we had some pretty tough winters. I'm sure that played a big part in the decline of numbers.

When we were hunting the Bremen tournament this weekend I was wondering something. Why has it taken so long for coyotes to move into eastern ND. You think of all the hundreds of years that they've been around, and now they decide to move this way. Does it have anything to do with humans developing more areas out west? I don't mean to high jack this thread, just something that got my wheels turning.

[LeviM]

Coyotes follow their food source, so I am assuming as numbers were getting greater in West they needed to compete for more food, so they migrated east. My theory, anyone else?