Coyotehunter.net

I may be missing something, but......

Why is it that everyone (when using a shotgun) seems to be using the heavier/larger shot sizes for killing coyotes?

I've noticed it in most of the videos, and on TV hunting shows, and it causes me to wonder.
I know they aren't THAT hard to kill, or as tough as a Rhino requiring drop-them-in-their-tracks impact.
The chokes that everyone seem to be using will keep extra tight patterns out beyond 50 yards (something most turkey hunters envy) (i.e.- the Carlson Dead Coyote).
The videos of some of these kills show a lot of hair flying and dirt kicking up behind the animals shot with these loads.
That means shot pattern density, but why such heavy (and expensive) shot?
Is it mostly because there are fewer holes in the pelt, and avoids damage?
That doesn't seem to be the case in the videos.
Or is it some other reason?

Someone enlighten me.

I never use a shot gun when coyote hunting but IF I did! 4 shot would be my choice
I used to walk down fox with a shot gun and used 4 buck in a 12 ga.it was good to about a 100 yds

When dealing with buckshot you have certain sizes that stack in the shotcups. It will give you enhanced patterns if the right gauge and shot are stacked correctly. Wind deflection is less with the larger shot sizes also. Round balls loose energy fast so thus the reason for buckshot sizes. Most of the loads I am working on in the 10 gauge are for 50-100 yards. Larger shot tends to stay more on course if you can get the components to work out the barrel together. You give up pattern density with the big stuff but if you can keep it in the minute of coyote all the better. Coyote's are not real tuff but getting the pellets through the hair at 50 plus yards you need the heavier pellets. The only real advantage to the tungsten stuff is it's non toxic and can be used where lead cannot. Hope this helps.

Good explaination.
I have never used much of that larger size shot- some 00 buck and #4's is about it.
My preference is 4's, 5's, or 6's- basically what is on any store shelf.
My shotgun can punch a hole through a 2x6 at 40 yds with those loads- done that to a lot of fox too!
They deer hunt with 00 buck in areas like coastal NC- I never really felt comfortable with any of it.
Where I live, you can use just about anything you want, as long as it is a single ball to deer hunt- rifle is preference, and shotguns mostly all are full choke, until they started coming with modified only in the new screw-in types, but they are not required.
That has changed things some.
There aren't many folks who hunt geese or ducks, but I think that is on the increase in the counties with larger rivers and wetlands.
The dedicated turkey hunters are the guys that use similar loads as you described- but not that big, and you can turkey hunt with a rifle, too.
Yes the explaination helped- it sounds as if you are refering to the turkey hunter style duplex loads concerning stacking, etc.
Same principle- but, if you are shooting past 50 yards (which is really quite a long way in the shotgun world) why not use the rifle?
Penetration through the hair is a moot point and the boolits don't slow down like the round balls do.
To each his own, I guess.
I guess the difference in our locations and terrain are the real differences that are making me wonder- nearly all of those shots that I see on TV or DVD's are in wide open country- not at all like here.

I guess I kind of think the opposite. Coyotes, I think, pound for pound are probably one of the toughest critters there is (besides wild pig). They have an amazingly high pain threshold. Much tougher than a deer IMO and with a will to survive that equals or surpasses just about anything out there.

I carry a shotgun quite a bit (in fact have killed more dogs with it this year already than the last three years combined). Mine is STRICTLY a 50 yard and under gun. After that, ill just use the rifle.

Shooting a Benelli M1 with an extended full Carlson choke, ive found the best option to be plated and buffered 3" BB. Even in my waterfowling im a big fan of more pellets over bigger pellets. With this load, im putting over 80% of my pellets in a 24 inch circle at 40 yards with no holes in the pattern. That means roughly 50 pellets from my 1 1/4 ounce loads, take this down to a dog facing me, probably in the neighborhood of 25-40 pellets in the animal.

My reasoning:
When I shoot a dog, I dont want to worry about him, especially if its a double type scenario, I want to pull the trigger, anchor the target, and turn my full attention to number 2. I dont want to have to hit him again, or watch him to make sure "hes going down" after a short run. Now do I always get a "bang-flop"? No, but its due to user error, not the load.

I do plan on doing some patterning with 4 buck this summer as lead BB is impossible to find anymore.

If someone could find a dropper that makes BB size pellets a guy could make a lot of money selling the shot to coyote hunters who load there own loads. I think that lead BB is by far the most wicked load there is when it comes to killing a coyote with a shotgun.

lyonch wrote:If someone could find a dropper that makes BB size pellets a guy could make a lot of money selling the shot to coyote hunters who load there own loads. I think that lead BB is by far the most wicked load there is when it comes to killing a coyote with a shotgun.

I concur.

From what ive been told (from a guy that knows that guy-you know how that goes) is the major manufacurers wont drop it anymore as it doesnt sell due to being illegal for waterfowl, and with "other" options to coyote hunters now with the uber spendy dead coyote stuff.

But, what I was told, if a guy could line up enough to make, I think it was 1,000 cases or something, they would do a limited run drop of lead BB.

This years WV state regulations say Coyote during day time (between 1/2 hour before and after dawn and dusk) is continuous open season, no limit.
Some counties allow Sunday hunting, some do not (more do not than do).
During closed small game seasons coyotes are legal only in open fields.

Night time is Jan 1 through July 31, no limit. Amber or red colored lights only.
At night shotguns can use #4 or smaller shot and rimfire rifles or handguns .22 caliber or smaller.
No laser sights or telescopics that use laser light at night.

Electronic calls are legal.

That is the extent of all coyote regulations here.

After reading that, I realized the above reg keeps most of the folks here from buying anything bigger, even though you could use larger during the day.
It's on hand.

It is also illegal to be afield with shot sizes larger than 4 shot during deer seasons.

I have been considering what everyone has said and was thinking on trying to locate some BB loads to pattern in my shotgun, but I'd almost bet that, unless it is a turkey load, I won't be able to find any- especially if you guys say it's as scarce as hens teeth.
Because of the above reg's there wouldn't be much reason to have it on any store shelf.
Tomorrow, I am going to call around and see if any are available.

From what I think I remember about making shot (years ago, there once was a do-it-yourself shot making kit, but I never saw more than a picture of one), if you could pour your hot lead through an appropriately sized screen or funnel from height and let the shot fall into a vat of water to cool it, it could be done at home.

What would 1000 case of BB weigh, let alone cost?
Has anybody asked the cast boolit people?
Federal stil makes paper cases for those diehard reloaders- maybe the manufacturers of shot just don't know how much demand there could be, if someone could tell them.
Less than 100,000 peole have cause manufactures around the world to bring back antique firearm designs to support CAS- why not BB shot?
Everyone is migrating to the pricey stuff ($25.00 for box of 10? whew- not me!) because they don't make the other stuff-AND you have it on hand.

Interesting similarities.

I understand Redfox's explaination concerning the stacking reasons of the bigger shot, but I think I still favor Barebackjack when he says "Mine is STRICTLY a 50 yard and under gun. After that, ill just use the rifle." and "When I shoot a dog, I dont want to worry about him, especially if its a double type scenario, I want to pull the trigger, anchor the target, and turn my full attention to number 2. I dont want to have to hit him again...."

I'm going to repattern my shotgun when the weather breaks, and see just what I can do- especially if I can find those mythical BB loads- it's time for a new round of toture testing!

Roane,

You might want to check some local gun shows. The last couple years thats the ONLY place ive been able to find it. I got lucky a few years ago and managed to scrounge an entire case at a gun show for $5 a box! (I come from a BIG waterfowling area, so large lead shot is a dinosaur around these parts).

Dont ever recall seeing a box in a store for at least the last two years. Im sure someone may have a dusty old box or two in a corner in the back though.

I can't find it anymore! I have looked up and down in every direction, its tough to come by, its like looking for treasure now a days

I know lead can't be beat and Dead Coyote is Expensive and getting hard to find in 3" in Bismarck so, I'm currently trying Steel T shot . The 3" has 1-1/4 OZ. of punch and claims 1400 FPS. The T shot measures .240 and there are between 58-64 in each 1-1/4 load (can't recall excactly) But quite a few projectiles.

For 17 bucks per 25 shot box lots of bang for your buck. Havn't had any coyotes shot with it but with extensive porcupine and jackrabbit testing 70 YDS is alittle beyond usable range with MY max shotgun range of 50 yds anything under 50 doesn't argue about the lethality.

Shot a little female yesterday with dead coyote as I have 4 left, she fell in her tracks @ 30 YDS, one BB hit her RIGHT between the headlights very affective round no doubt.

I think steel T is a usuable alternative in 3"

I always carry my old 870 just in case,
Norm

I am currently using dead coyote, its awesome stuff, little spendy, but what isn't in the sport of coyote hunting. I would rather spend alittle extra money in my bullets and have good faith that there will be "bang Flop"

Tyrant,

Let us know how those steel T's perform after you whack a few with it. Thats one thing I can find plenty of. And the new steel loads are MUCH better than some of the older stuff.

Im no steel fan, at all. Id be worried about its downrange effectiveness. Cant argue theyll be enough pellets there if choked right, but will they have enough retained energy at 40-50 yards? Let us know!

I killed a coyote with steel 2's goose hunting, 35 yards. But I dont think id make a practice of it.

i got 5 shells of 00 buck for almost $7 not a very good deal if you ask me but it was a local small town Tv (company name). what shot of lead are you looking for maybe i can find it here. we have some HH (store name) stores that has some old stock. what are the specs. that you were talking about with the lead shot.

I did a search on-line for Stewart shot maker- check out the links and maybe you can find a machine to start making your own shot.
The cast boolit web site has extensive information on casting for shotguns, etc.
Looks like $500 or so for a machine.
That wouldn't take long to pay for itself.