Cold Barrel shots

[Prairie Ghost]

Haven't had time to really look at the data you posted but thanks for taking the time will go over it tonight.

[Coyotehunter]

can we talk about stress relieved barrels? factory barrels (hammer forged) and/or guns in general are built tight (try to slide a piece of paper from your fore stock and action) to minimize shifting due to heat. stress releaving is a heating and cooling process used to align the grains of the metal. This is done to minimize movement or twisting of the barrel as it heats up. Also with a good quality match grade barrel they hand lap them to reduce fouling and this in turn reduces heat and movement within the barrel. meaning tighter groups from first to last shot. I use Hart barrels on my .22-6mm, cleans easy and shoots straight. Last week I was shooting some bait and the .204 was in the safe so I used the .22-6mm. I took 7 shots all at distances over 200 yards and shot 7 praire dogs. I shot 37 coyotes in a row last summer with out a miss, all adult coyotes on sheep grounds. I shot one coyote this summer at 450 yards and another at 425 yards. one shot apiece. I can not give a bunch of numbers to prove that a match grade barrel is a must but I can give a lot of reasons why I would not shoot anything else. when you talk about cold barrel shots and how they effect your rifle in hunting situations these examples I am giving are what we are talking about. Not if it is measurable or not. We all agree that you can measure it but if the movement is so great as to effect your shot on coyotes then time for a new barrel. We can talk about how to live with it but that is like keeping a bad girlfriend around. I got this from the Lilja site which does as good of a job as anyone explaining this issue.


"Residual stress in a barrel is another possible cause of inaccuracy. Stress can be caused by the rifling process, as it is in button rifling (our method), or can exist in the steel bar as it was received from the steel mill. We stress relieve our barrels with elevated temperatures. As discussed elsewhere (FAQ) we have not found that the deep cyrogenic process is very effective at removing stress in the steels commonly used in rifle barrel manufacture.

Stress in steel will tend to come out when the steel is either heated or machined. The heating of a barrel through firing it is often enough to allow some stress movement to occur. In effect what happens is the barrel warps and is no longer "looking" where we thought it was. The bullets don't hit the target where they were intended. If a bar of steel is machined while it contains stress, it will move. This can be noticed in an increase in bore and groove diameters as the outside diameter is reduced. This can mean an increase of these diameters as a barrel is contoured smaller in diameter towards the muzzle. Or an enlargement in the internal dimensions under the flutes of a fluted barrel.

All of the steel used in the manufacture of our barrels is stress relieved by the steel mill as their last operation and again following the rifling operation in a vacuum furnace. In both cases this stress relieving is done through the application of heat.

Rifle barrels made using the hammer forge process contain a tremendous amount of stress. This explains why some barrels on mass-produced factory rifles will walk their shots as those barrels heat from firing. "

one thing I did notice in Pilgrims post "The majority of accurate barrels start walking left or right when things warm up, especially with high-velocity loads." this statement is not correct. the Barrels do not walk from left to right it is the load itself. This is a very old one time national champion BR and gunsmiths words to me when I was discussing with him this problem. When your bullet strings are horizontal you need to back off on the powder, when you bullet strings are vertical you need to add some powder. This is the way they did it before chronegraphs where something everyone owned.

[Pilgrim]

CH

Appreciate your post! I'll respond later today.

[Prairie Ghost]

Well i guess that pretty much explains it

[Tim Anderson]

Can somebody please post some info on what a MATCH GRADE barrel on average does with a heated barrel? I don't want your opinion i want some one that actually did a study or a barrel manufactures information on their barrels. I shoot a Kreiger barrel and unless i have a brain fart and shoot 40 shells with it without letting it cool it doesn't change unless we are talking about EXTREME ranges or bench rest type accuracy. Your talking about a nine inch deep and 15inch across target area if your barrel changes that much from the first shot to the second buy a new barrle or stay at home. Jesus we're bickering about something that is so minuscul (sp) when it comes to the average called coyote that it's making my head hurt.

I use match grade barrels on all my custom rifles and i don't have a problem with the point of aim shifting on a cold barrel or as i heats up untill i get to around the 12 th or 13th shot..
Usually when i load test i load up 20 rounds of varis loads for testing. I'll fire a 5 round group and then wait for the barrel to cool, test by touch of the hand...Then fire another 5 rds. wait and then 5 more, by the time i get around to the third group the barrel starts to heat up alot faster and then the groups start to open up but still keeping under a inch and tite enough to still hit a coyote at 100 or 200 yds.. I know that this happens on most of my rifles so i just let them lay longer to cool before i finish testing the last ten rounds..
I also used to have a AR and if i remember correctly it would open up on the groups after the 10th shot or so...

I did have a Sako at one time chambered in 243, factory rifle with a sporter barrel. That thing would heat up so fast i never could test a five shot group with it....

[bucksnbears]

great explanation coyotehunter. a bit off topic but has anyone heard of a barrel made of just carbon or is it a myth????

[Tim Anderson]

a bit off topic but has anyone heard of a barrel made of just carbon or is it a myth????

The barrel is not made of carbon, its actually a lite contour barrel with carbon wrapped around it to make it stiff...

[Pilgrim]

"Rifle barrels made using the hammer forge process contain a tremendous amount of stress. This explains why some barrels on mass-produced factory rifles will walk their shots as those barrels heat from firing. "

"I did have a Sako at one time chambered in 243, factory rifle with a sporter barrel. That thing would heat up so fast i never could test a five shot group with it...."

Chris- I trust there's enough here to satisfy your post. Good luck w/ your rifle.

[lyonch]

There is a ton of info and opinions on this topic. I specifically remeber a tv show for military snipers that they were really concerned with cold barrel shots and it was a huge accomplishment to shoot 1,000 yard bullseye from a cold barrel. They seemed to really push the topic. As far as a hunting scenario and the application that i am trying to pursue it shouldn't be taken into consideration. Maybe i should be working on my calling because i need to be able to call in a coyote to shoot but then again i need to be able to shoot to kill the damn thing This sport is a visious cycle isn't that why we love it It makes a guy twist his mind and turn stupid from time to time. There is only one thing in my mind that any coyote hunter can do to better himself when it comes to coyote hunting and that means getting off of the internet and lazy boy recliner and getting out there everyday and just kill coyotes. Don't worry about any of the equipment and just get out there and hunt. Whatever happened to the old grabbing the gun off of the shelf and a random box of shells and with a few shots to sight in you were off to the hills with your hand made coyote call killing dogs? Technology is a great thing but at times it confuses the hell out of a guy.

[Daryl]

Hav u theen my baball

[LeviM]

Hav u theen my baball

What? are you okay Daryl or did I miss something

[Coyotehunter]

I guess Bill Auston shot with an old peace of shit lever action and smoked cigerrettes on stand.

[bucksnbears]

i took 2 rifles out yesterday to the range and for both rifles, the second and third shot grouped right with the first.

[Yote_Slayer]

I dont think there is a straight answer, every gun is diffenrt so they will all react differnt. I notice hot barrel being worst then cold with my .223wssm (after about 4 shot or so) but when I play weekend worrior I can shoot 90 rounds on burst through my m16 so the barrel is smoking and it still holds good groups

[LeviM]

Yote_Slayer, I have noticed the same thing with my .243 if I start cranking out shots and the barrel heats up my group opens up. Like PG stated in an earlier post, if your on your 4 or 5 shot, you are more than likely shooting out of fustration.