Sowhat does everyone think of the new WT "ATOM"?

[coyotelatrans]

RandyR could really care less who everyone thinks is the greatest as it is a "subjective" term, what is great to one guy isn't for the next. Choices and the reasons we have them, just glad we don't have a monoply as callers would still be 900.00 instead of the 500 range and sounds would still be 33.00 each. Competition is a good thing for the consumer in more ways than one!

[RandyRoede]

Why has FP prices climbed above WT's

[Tim Anderson]

Did you guys know that WT sells there Atom for 39.00..

[RandyRoede]

$39????????

[Tim Anderson]

Yes thats correct. I just figured out if i buy 55 new sounds that comes to 550.00 .. The Atom sells for 589.00 so i could just buy the Atom with the 55 sounds that comes with it..

[coyotelatrans]

I just figured out if i buy 55 new sounds that comes to 550.00 .. The Atom sells for 589.00 so i could just buy the Atom with the 55 sounds that comes with it.

Tim where you a psych major in college? That is some reverse thinking. So why not charge 70.00 per sound give 50 sounds with it and 1400.00 for a caller, with that line of thought your saving 2,100.00 Heck it is like getting free money . Sounds is where the profit is with a higher price point! Once you have them bought and paid for they are well over 90% profit the only expense you have then is copying a digital file. That is all figured into the price of a caller from the get go!

RandyR Nope, FP hasn't raised their prices at all in fact they offer callers for everyone's budget as well as Minaska. You can get them from 200.00-700.00 and all price points in between depending on extras and circuit boards and technology you want/need. In fact WT is the one who had to lower their price point to keep market share. Used to be well above 700.00 and sounds where 33.00 each, now in line with the other call makers and sounds have dropped by 2/3rds the cost. How many 2030's would be sold "IF" they where still made and priced 200.00+ higher than the CS-24? Think makret share on the 2030 would have dropped off?

I know WT sounds the best yadda,yadda. I will agree when their units where high dollar above 700.00 and the sounds being on a closed system they had something going, question would be do you think it was the quailty of the sounds or the fact no many had the sounds that was the key? Anytime one habituates coyotes with one tool in the same area your results will drop. The idea that WT sounds are so superior that everyone could be using them in the same areas and not have a drop off in results just isn't factual. I base this on my opinion not so much the sound brand but being different is what makes it keep on workin. I have used 3 callers in the same areas and they all have called in coyotes with positive results from both my standpoint and that of the coyotes. WT,FP and Minaska ALL have sounds that will call in coyotes on a consistant basis, again I base that on my use of all 3. A clsoed system limits your abilitys in my mind, if WT's market share would grow substanitly you would have avoidance in some areas to those sounds, I have no doubt about that.

An open system allows one to have a nice mix of different sounds on one unit, in my mind and my results I see that as a plus. My sound liabrary has sounds many don't have in this area and that helps with calling and locating coyotes. I can also mix in different brands if you will and generate things someone with a closed system can not. It isn't the brand of sound but the fact your using something different in areas that get calling pressure, that adds to ones success. That is a key point and add in the fact of using the coyotes nature against them with different times of the year and the story we portray when calling that makes it all come together my opinion. If an area receives alot of calling pressure from brand X and Z and a guy comes in with a mouth call or a different brand ,different sounds and calls from different areas will he have more success?

The technology is there for all to apply no one brand is light years ahead of the other as it is all technology someone can have one day and the rest can have within 2 weeks if they so choose to. Sounds are good on all 3 of the major players, they all have sounds I like and have worekd well for me. So really it comes down to what a guy wants from a unit, can it be open system or not to allow more flexability, price point,warranty and customer service and what brand you want to hitch your wagon to. I keep all options open and what is the best now could change 3 years down the road, best again subjective to the person making the purchase. If you break down when the bulk of coyotes are called it is late fall/early winter when we have the highest populations of the year, meaning alot of young coyotes are going to work the call very well, success being easier.
In our line of work we are working coyotes at times of livestock depredation meaning we are working on their agressive tendancys of pup rearing and home range defense. 2 key times of the year when one should expect a good success rate. Durring calling contest things can take on a different aspect for sure, I do very little comp calling myself, but give me an open calling system if I'm calling areas that have had pressure and allow me the opportunity to work those coyotes with different sounds and sequacnes others can't or don't use?

I look at a closed caller as a negative, if you add market share meaning more guys using the same sounds in the same areas over a period of time, doesn't that limit your options more than an open system? If Bill wanted to the technology is there to make his sounds propritary to his callers, and then still allow people to add other sounds to his unit. FP has their own file source for sounds, problem being if others could add sounds to the WT, they would soon see that in areas of pressure having other sounds would indeed benefit them and thus limiting further sound sales and making new sounds to keep sales a priority for the end user. Remember the profit margin when they where at 33.00 each and even at 10.00 each? Don;t you think many with a programable WT people would add other sounds? Think they wouldn't have success with those other sounds? My testing and evalution shows that answer as a big Yes. I look for certain features in a caller as do all callers, but sounds isn't that big of an issue as I know what I have or can get from that maker will work. Back to no one is light years ahead.


Think about when alot of coyotes where called with PVC and wood howlers and the success the early users had, then as it caught on and money to be made everyone was howling with a mouth call of some sort and locating for the fun of it, the mouth calls effectiveness dropped, then came the e caller with remote an the ability to move sound from the person and the choices of sounds, then alot of e callers big popularity gain in calling in general and e callers, could it come back full circle again in the future? Where the mouth call reigns supreme once again? I know I like to mix in some mouth calls with the e call at times and one would think boy that wise old coyotes just heard a real live digital coyote recording and yet he came to the old plastic reed caller? Tone/pitch and location and being different.


This is a great topic I would like everyone to input their thoughts and ideas on the subject!


RandyR don't worry you will have the best caller known to man soon enough so keep smilin and wavin buddy

Back to trap boiling.

[LeviM]

nothing like beating a subject to death

[Tim Anderson]

coyotelatrans : I already have a WT that came with 35 sounds set up for mostly coyotes. I go to AZ once a year to call and was thinking about adding more sounds to my WT for calling grey fox,bobcats and lions. What i was getting at is it wouldbe the same price or close to it if i just bought another caller with the new sounds on rather than buy the 55 sounds and i would have a second caller for back up if anything should happen to the other..

Anytime one habituates coyotes with one tool in the same area your results will drop.

I would have to disagree..
I hunted a few times with Randy and on one hunt we worked the same group of coyotes most of the mourning with the WT and it still brought them in. This same group was then worked by me alone two days later and the WT still got them in to gun range.. There was another group that was hit 3-days in a row and the WT still brought them in on the third day..
I found that by just changeing the order of the sounds or createing a new sequence will put you back in the game, I also learned if you don't have the shot you can let them walk and still come back the next day and bring them in with a WT... Last winter was my first chance to give the WT a good work out and on most of my stands i was calling in doubles or thriples and killing only one but i could come back the next day and called the same area and still bring them back for more..LOL
Later on dureing the season i borrowed my WT to Randy and used my B.C. for my last trip, it did call in one coyote close enough for me to kill but i also lost a few due to the B.C. not haveing the vocabulary to work the coyotes and i had to make more stands in a area cause the B.C. was'nt loud enough to cover the area.. I got so frustrated with the B.C. i just put it back in the truck and used handcalls the rest of the trip or used my Dennis Kirk caller...

[coyotelatrans]

Tim ok 39.00? If the sounds where 3.00 each then the decision would be easy. you could buy 30 more sounds for 90.00 and keep 400.00 in your pocket. So I see your math if you wanted 30 more sounds for lions and gray fox that would cost you 300.00 from WT and the atom then only cost you 190.00+ 50.00 in batteries. Gotcha. Tim that is called shrewed marketing on behalf of WT, they got you by the short hairs, because it is a closed system you have No other option to add new or more sounds than by going through WT. at 10.00 each it gets pricey when a guy starts to add 15 -25 sounds onto his caller, the reason Bill needs No other unit than the flagship, his sales on sounds at his pricing is what makes him the money. Again why not have them propritary and allow an open system? Becuase it would cut into his profits for sure! I can get 16 sound pack from FoxPro for 25.00 and know what they can come out with the "BEST" of the "BEST" and I'm betting we never see 10.00 sounds from them, why? They know the $$$ comes from volume and can make back any and all production cost and keep prices in a range that is better than resonable. Think about the cost in the recording industry yet we can buy songs from amazon for .99 each or a CD with 10 songs for 10.00 and we are talking millions upon millions spent on singers,songwriters, mixing people and a recording studio. Called volume but I'm never going to believe ol' Bill has that much wrapped up into sounds to start at 33.00 each or even 10.00 each years down the road from orginal recordings. Bill keeps smilin" and wavin each time the phone rings for a sound order of 10-20 at 10.00 per sound

I don't disagree you can call back in the same coyotes as long as you are the one working them and let them pass on shots, again doesn't matter the brand of the call. The coyotes you and randyr worked all morning, question why didn't they come into stands 1 or 2 with the WT? I have had the same with other brand callers and yes even the WT- work them doesn't work out, next morning work them again different sounds and walla dead coyotes. You really think the WT is the only caller to do that or has an advantage? That comes down to more the guy calling and knowing the area and how to best work those coyotes and what mood those coyotes are in as much as it does what sticker a machine has on it and a nice choice of sounds be it any brand.

The pressure is an area like a WIA that gets alot of pressure from different people through out the fall and winter and the 5-7 calling contest they get hit each time around. Hit those same places the same way, same time of day, with the same sounds and your going to get habituation, not even the WT is going to get around that fact. I know of people that call in the big contest and they even have troubles with WT sounds, they then need to add more sounds and different sounds in those situations. Happens to the best of them.

The BC wasn't loud enough to cover the area? What watt is your WT? what do you think your DB rating is with a mouth call versus the BC TOA horn? Have you read the DB testing that was done on these units? Not having the vocabulary to work those coyotes? You have an open system what was it that was missing?


You can disagree but use the same thing in the same area over time not 2 days or weeks but they will become accustomed to it and you will have more avoidance.

[Tim Anderson]

at 10.00 each it gets pricey when a guy starts to add 15 -25 sounds onto his caller,

10.00 a sound is nothing , there are guys out there that spend more than that on beer or smokes every-week. The beer and smokes willbe gone but the sound that was bought will always be there, much better investment don't you think..
I've listened to most of the F-P sounds and they only have a few good ones, like the ones from Cal. and the sounds they bought from Bill Austin's wife...
E-callers are a specialty item compared to CD's with recorded songs, not that many are sold except for F-P cause they keep changeing there callers and everyone thinks they need to go to the next newest one out..

The coyotes you and randyr worked all morning, question why didn't they come into stands 1 or 2 with the WT?

This was a good size group we bumped a few just driveing in.. Randy called in a mangey one on the first stand plus two others and i shot the mangey one and then on second stand Randy called and shot another.
The area we where calling in see's its share of pressure with 3-4 contests every year plus the week-end guys and some of the ranchers and one area gets hit by the plane..

I can set the B.C. on the ground next to me and hardly hear it due to some hearing loss, and i can do the same with the WT and i have to cover my ears or move away. Pretty simple test to tell which is louder...

I have abunch of my own sounds i bought from other manufactures and some i had redone by some friends that new how to work them through Gold wave and edit them. After they where loaded into the B.C. alot of clarity and volume was lost. Untill i can find someone better at editting sounds and down loading them the B.C will just stay on the shelf..

with the same sounds and your going to get habituation,

Not if you kill them..

[Daryl]

TA are you trying to get into it with another state trapper named Randy. You won't win. These guys are above and beyond your caliber or mine for that matter. You remind me of a old childhood buddy that reached out to pet our dog, got bit, then reached right back to get bit again.

[Tim Anderson]

We are just chit chatting. Oh by the way there are no prizes except he gets to keep his F-P and i get to keep my WT..They maybe above you but not me..

[Daryl]

Thats right your the Mr. Coyote man

[Tim Anderson]

I still have some learning to do but i'll get that from exsperiance in the field. As for you last time i checked you where as green as green couldbe prior to the classic

[Daryl]

Maybe some would agree and maybe some wouldn't. Do I still have learning to do? Well sure we all do. But to say your above 2 state trappers is just ignorant. You just turn up that miracle ear and keep whacken and stacken buddy. Or dial and smile or whatever it is you do.